Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Trekker4747, Jan 15, 2020.
"Oh shit, are we on the holodeck? Of the Enterprise D?"
Summing up the reaction of a whole lotta Enterprise fans.
Great video summing up my total dislike for this episode.
He generally does pretty good episodes on Star Trek related stuff. (Actually, all of his content is pretty good.) But, yeah, his summation of the episode is pretty spot on to exactly how I, and everyone else, felt when the episode aired. It's was an story about Riker and not the characters we had been following for several seasons!
And there's an even more succinct summation than watching the video.
YouTube? No thanks.
It was written 100% by Rick Berman & Brannon Braga after they both took a year off from actually working directly on the series; plus it was from a script written the PREVIOUS season when they already figured they's be cancelled and wouldn't even get the Season 4 the show did get.
(for TLDR - just read the BOLDED portion above. You don't need to waste time with a click-bait Youtube video)
If it was a normal episode and set on the Titan, no one would have had a issue with it.
How is the video "click bait" it discusses the very topic it advertises itself to be about.
I am not always agree with Steve Shives about Trek.(e.g. I think sometimes he tries too hardly to be political correct and I consider pc as retrogressive step to pre- renaissance ages, but it is my meaning.) Well, all youtuber needs a little bit sensation and provocation, he does also his best, so why not?
I am not agree with every statement at this review (like " four ehh season", ENT was never a great show etc.) but he has many good points. Some of them we have already discussed here and some others are new to me, like TnT conservation at the shuttlepod was "decontamined" by Riker's holo conservation with her. Well, maybe the reason for is, I watched the TATV only once and erased my memory immediately.
You think it's a "regressive" step to treat people equally and fairly and to not treat them differently, often less as people, based on their gender or race?
There's nothing regressive about being politically correct.
I am not sure if this right place to discuss, but I was born as a member of persecuted minority. Before I left the country, I was witness of more than seven "pogroms" and two of them survived by chance. I got attacked and beaten from a mob as I tried the protect a suddenly attacked mother of four and her children with another skin color at my migration country. I am a female person who has two engineer degrees. For one of them I was the first female person who dared to study at that faculty after ten years. Among other things I am trained diversity officer on a fabric location with ca. 2000 employees from a multi national concern and so on.. So, I don't know if you know what you are talking about, but I am sure what I do.
Political correctness has nothing to do with " to treat people equally and fairly and to not treat them differently, often less as people, based on their gender or race". It is the issue of citizen rights, law, justice and constitution. Except calling for violence, pure insulting and hate speech every idea/ meaning can be said freely. Maybe we wouldn't like them all, but in a mature society we have enough space to argue and confront in a civilized way and I have enough self confidence for this. I never need a shield called pc.Before Enlightenment and Renaissance people couldn't say freely their meaning and for this freedom, freedom of speech, humanity has to fight sooo long and millions of people died for. Sorry, I am not ready to give up this freedom for so called political correctness. Who defines what is correct or not, except the laws? If laws are not sufficient enough to protect right of any gender/race/ whatsoever, we can fight for change them, as we always done before, but we cannot subdue us/our rights under someones political correctness. It is not logical by any means. Inquisition defined it's "truth" on a same arrogant basis, Mr. Goebbels too . Yeah I know, sometimes it takes too much time until we find a compromise as a society and democracy needs toleration. Nevertheless, every obstacle which blocks our communication with each other and gives unreasonable ethic superiority for a side of interactivity is a "regressive" step, if I try to formulate it kindly.
I let from no one occupy my freedom in the name of whatsoever! And this is one of the reason why Trek is part of my life.
Definitely not the right place for it. But ... the whole notion of "political correctness" for the past 30 years or so has been largely a construct of the right wing to deflect attacks of sexism or racism. IE, the president of the United States is criticized for calling a woman who doesn't like his policies a "fat disgusting slob." His defense: "I don't have time for political correctness." Right wing cheers his "defense of free speech."
But back to the point, yeah, the Enterprise ending was awful.
Not true. The only upsides to that would be that we’d see the Titan and the story wouldn’t have been shoehorned into “The Pegasus.” Other than that, it still would have sucked because we’d still only be seeing holographic versions of the characters.
No more political discussion here. That includes taking cheap political shots even as you say this is not the place for politics. (Lookin at you, CaptJimboJones.)
Take it to PM or TNZ.
Even apart from what was discussed in the video (which is accurate and all stuff I've said and heard over the last fifteen years), I was posting here at the time and I remember a whole lot of people feeling like Berman and Braga specifically wrote this garbage as a glorified hissy fit that fandom was largely supportive of the direction Manny Coto took Enterprise in it's last season. In retrospect, it hasn't aged all that well for me, but I can respect his efforts to address the most pressing criticisms many folks had.
But making a whole episode dedicated to swanning on about TNG was really so disrespectful, not just to ENT fans, but to all of fandom. It's like DS9 and Voyager didn't matter, either, if this was the "valentine to the fans" they intended this to be. Modern Trek weren't just all TNG fans who migrated to the other shows, they all had had their unique fans. Hell, *I* was one of those new fans. So were most of the women I remember posting with when the show ran, many of whom were Scott Bakula fans who'd never watched Trek before.
Game of Thrones and HIMYM are both technically worse endings than this, but at least their finales were about their shows.
I don't disagree that These Are the Voyages was disrespectful to the ENT cast and fans. I mean to push them aside for Riker and Troi, to make their final episode a holodeck recreation that awkwardly fitted inside a TNG episode, and to kill off Trip, the most well-developed character on the series, to boot, it was very dismissive. I hadn't heard the fan speculation that B&B did it to spite Manny Coto, but I could see that happening. I mean fans, not to mention the general audience, had rejected their version of the show, for the most part, and some fans had warmed to Coto's fourth season.
Though I also wonder if B&B actually thought they were giving a 'valentine' to the fans. I mean TNG was the most successful iteration of Trek, after TOS, and that was their baby, and so perhaps they thought the fans would be pleased going back to those halcyon days of Trek and revisiting some fan favorite characters, even more than giving ENT a proper send-off of its own. Voyages could've been their concession-and maybe apology-for screwing up ENT, but it just didn't go over well. That being said, it could've been an admission of failure that was not cool when it comes to the ENT cast and fans. And it could've been B&B waxing poetic about a time when their take on Trek was more widely embraced. Perhaps they were seeking to make us love them again?
I'm not going to lie though. I did enjoy seeing Riker and Troi again, and I liked both characters more than any of the ENT characters. I also liked how the show ended with the various Enterprises. But I do also see how disrespectful it was to not let the ENT cast go out in on their own, in their own way.
I liked the Titan idea proposed. If we had gotten the Titan and a problem Riker was facing after Nemesis and was looking back for lessons, that could've been cool.
Oh gee... are we doing TATV again?
TATV is the closest I will ever come to having my own "personal head canon". There was nothing good about it. Nothing.
It would have been better if it was just Troi’s program on the Titan, and we don’t find out until the end of the episode.
Riker’s appearance as chef could have been explained as being his Canadian ancestor that was moving to Alaska. I remember that one of the junior officers on the TNG episode Lower Deck thought he was Canadian once.
Then the rest of the episode could have been about the final mission of the Enterprise NX-01 crew and the founding of the Federation, as it should have been. Since as a concept, the episode was actually okay. It just needed a better execution.
Ooh, another TATV thread. I know the moderators love when these pop up. This must be the 1569'th TATV is the worse finale in the history of Star Trek (probably of all time) thread.
And for the record it's well deserved. It is the worse Star Trek finale ever. It's the only Star Trek show I've ever watched that I really don't like.
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