ReadyAndWilling
Fleet Captain
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
yea. seeing shran would have been great, too.
Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were?
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Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
The Borg were indeed a TNG invention. However, at the end of Regeneration, Archer flat out says that the Borg sent a homing beacon with Earth's location to someplace deep in the Delta Quadrant. If that's not a VOY shoutout, I don't know what is.
Indeed they did. They first appeared in the two-parter The Maquis. They then later appeared in the penultimate TNG episode, Preemptive Strike.
The Borg were indeed a TNG invention. However, at the end of Regeneration, Archer flat out says that the Borg sent a homing beacon with Earth's location to someplace deep in the Delta Quadrant. If that's not a VOY shoutout, I don't know what is.
Indeed they did. They first appeared in the two-parter The Maquis. They then later appeared in the penultimate TNG episode, Preemptive Strike.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
The Ferengi were not unknown to the Federation prior to TNG. They were unknown to us, the audience. Fans tend to conflate those.
Picard threatens Groppler Zorn with the Ferengi in Encounter at Farpoint.
And the Federation knows what a Ferengi ship looks like
They seem to have many reports ( though conflicting) about the Ferengi. Some see pretty spot on.
And of course they weren't know for waving the Ferengi flag when encountered.
So who can say how many times an unknown ship or alien encountered by th UE and UFP Starfleets were actually Ferengi. ( Two for sure but probably more)
The Borg were known to Guinans people ( They were on the run from them in GEN) and the Hansons. So there must have been a file buried in the UFP/Starfleet Archives that mention them. Perhaps even linking them to the Cyborg race that attacked Earth in the 22nd Century.
The Ferengi were not unknown to the Federation prior to TNG. They were unknown to us, the audience. Fans tend to conflate those.
Picard threatens Groppler Zorn with the Ferengi in Encounter at Farpoint.
Encounter At Farpoint said:
And the Federation knows what a Ferengi ship looks like
The Last Outpost said:
They seem to have many reports ( though conflicting) about the Ferengi. Some see pretty spot on.
The term "modern scholars" would seem to indicate that the nature of the Ferengi has been studied and speculated on for quite sometime.The Last Outpost said:
And of course they weren't know for waving the Ferengi flag when encountered.
The Battle said:
So who can say how many times an unknown ship or alien encountered by th UE and UFP Starfleets were actually Ferengi. ( Two for sure but probably more)
The Borg were known to Guinans people ( They were on the run from them in GEN) and the Hansons. So there must have been a file buried in the UFP/Starfleet Archives that mention them. Perhaps even linking them to the Cyborg race that attacked Earth in the 22nd Century.
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Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Phlox is seen disecting a Cardassian vole in A Mirror Darkly.
Phlox is seen disecting a Cardassian vole in A Mirror Darkly.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
The Hur'q predate the beginning of TNG.
Didn't the Hur'q originate in the old FASA games back in the early-mid eighties?
The Hur'q predate the beginning of TNG.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Not really - it was TNG, remember, that established the DQ as the Borg's origin. And the time he said it'd take the signal to arrive makes it first and foremost a Q Who/BOBW reference.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I thought it was a targ puppy.
I thought it was a targ puppy.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I think you're thinking of the Kinshaya, who were an invention of John M. Ford's The Final Reflection, went on to appear in FASA's Klingon stuff (co-writtrn by Ford) and were resurrected for the recent-ish novels. They've never been on TV or film.
The novel Ishmael featured the Karsid, a race that enslaved the Klingons hundreds of years ago and may have inspired TNG's Hur'q.
I think you're thinking of the Kinshaya, who were an invention of John M. Ford's The Final Reflection, went on to appear in FASA's Klingon stuff (co-writtrn by Ford) and were resurrected for the recent-ish novels. They've never been on TV or film.
The novel Ishmael featured the Karsid, a race that enslaved the Klingons hundreds of years ago and may have inspired TNG's Hur'q.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I suppose you're right, though it wasn't until First Contact that TNG established the Delta Quadrant with the Borg. However, tell me that the casual viewer or fan doesn't associate the DQ with VOY.
Not really - it was TNG, remember, that established the DQ as the Borg's origin. And the time he said it'd take the signal to arrive makes it first and foremost a Q Who/BOBW reference.
I suppose you're right, though it wasn't until First Contact that TNG established the Delta Quadrant with the Borg. However, tell me that the casual viewer or fan doesn't associate the DQ with VOY.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
To be fair, ENT was never said to be a prequel only to TOS. If anything, it's a prequel to all of Trek, IMO...
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I should create a flowchart. But I don't have one so I'll simply explain.
ENT ---> TOS ---> TNG ---> DS9 and Voyager
Now does it make sense to have the appearances of species only discovered later in a series set before the Romulans had even been physically seen? Well before first contact with the Ferengi or the Borg? Its grasping at straws to bootstrap to earlier success.
I should create a flowchart. But I don't have one so I'll simply explain.
ENT ---> TOS ---> TNG ---> DS9 and Voyager
Now does it make sense to have the appearances of species only discovered later in a series set before the Romulans had even been physically seen? Well before first contact with the Ferengi or the Borg? Its grasping at straws to bootstrap to earlier success.
antiquityscion
Commander
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
I understand where you are coming from, and understand what you mean. Were those episodes needed? No. Were they bad? I didn't think so. I liked both, actually.
Enterprise was produced and created by the same people who did DS9\VOY and worked on TNG, so it would actually been surprising if they did not do tip of the caps to those shows. TNG DS9 and VOy had a combined 21 seasons, compared to TOS's 3 seasons, so limiting it to just nods to TOS doesn't make sense.
I know it is a stretch when they dance around novel history like that, but it doesn't technically contradict TOS too badly. Even TOS contradicted itself from time to time.
But they did have a lot of episodes dealing with TOS era species: Telerites, Andorians, Gorn, Orians, Tholians, Romulans, Klingons, and Vulcans all made appearances. Could have been more, sure, but they did appear.
I understand where you are coming from, and understand what you mean. Were those episodes needed? No. Were they bad? I didn't think so. I liked both, actually.
Enterprise was produced and created by the same people who did DS9\VOY and worked on TNG, so it would actually been surprising if they did not do tip of the caps to those shows. TNG DS9 and VOy had a combined 21 seasons, compared to TOS's 3 seasons, so limiting it to just nods to TOS doesn't make sense.
I know it is a stretch when they dance around novel history like that, but it doesn't technically contradict TOS too badly. Even TOS contradicted itself from time to time.
But they did have a lot of episodes dealing with TOS era species: Telerites, Andorians, Gorn, Orians, Tholians, Romulans, Klingons, and Vulcans all made appearances. Could have been more, sure, but they did appear.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Enterprise wasn't just a prequel to TOS, it was a prequel to TNG/DS9/VOY too. Thus, IMO, the aliens from those series' were fair game.
Enterprise wasn't just a prequel to TOS, it was a prequel to TNG/DS9/VOY too. Thus, IMO, the aliens from those series' were fair game.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
ENT ---> all of Trek
I think that was the one being followed while ENT was on the air.
Here's another flowchart fer ya:
ENT ---> all of Trek
I think that was the one being followed while ENT was on the air.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Mermoy Alpha's Hur'q page
Memory Beta's Hur'q page
Both clearly state the first mention of the Hur'q was in DS9's The Sword of Kahless.
Mermoy Alpha's Hur'q page
Memory Beta's Hur'q page
Both clearly state the first mention of the Hur'q was in DS9's The Sword of Kahless.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
As long as the later series didn't imply or outright state that they represented Starfleet's first encounter with those aliens. I disliked the notion of ENT stealing another series thunder by swiping "their" aliens out from under them.
As long as the later series didn't imply or outright state that they represented Starfleet's first encounter with those aliens. I disliked the notion of ENT stealing another series thunder by swiping "their" aliens out from under them.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Then ya didn't watch TNG 'Q Who' when Q sent the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant & introduced Picard & Company to the Borg.
Then ya didn't watch TNG 'Q Who' when Q sent the Enterprise-D into the Delta Quadrant & introduced Picard & Company to the Borg.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
^ Q Who says nothing about the Delta Quadrant. In fact, the whole concept on dividing the galaxy into four quadrants wasn't introduced until the episode The Price, which aired in November 1989, six months after Q Who.
All Q Who establishes is that Q sent the ship to System J-25, which was 7,000 light-years from Federation space.
Star Trek: First Contact is the first on-screen mention of the Delta Quadrant in relation to the Borg.
It is true that behind-the-scenes, and in promotional material, the Borg were referred to as coming from the Delta Quadrant. However, no episode of TNG explicitly states that.
^ Q Who says nothing about the Delta Quadrant. In fact, the whole concept on dividing the galaxy into four quadrants wasn't introduced until the episode The Price, which aired in November 1989, six months after Q Who.
All Q Who establishes is that Q sent the ship to System J-25, which was 7,000 light-years from Federation space.
Star Trek: First Contact is the first on-screen mention of the Delta Quadrant in relation to the Borg.
It is true that behind-the-scenes, and in promotional material, the Borg were referred to as coming from the Delta Quadrant. However, no episode of TNG explicitly states that.
Re: Why is DS9 never hinted at in 'Enterprise' when all the shows were
Its a matter of logic. Those species we see in Enterprise should be well within the Federation's general area. Then the series should progressively expand. The result of expansion and exploration is an increasing variety of aliens. When TOS started you had Vulcans, Andorians, Orions, and some others. Then TNG added more. Then DS9 and Voyager.
The Enterprise messed up the expansion timeline royally. IMO it was simply stealing thunder.
With that said, I'm one of the people who liked Enterprise. I just wish it had played up the limitations of the time. I liked the episodes with Tholians, Andorians, Vulcans, Orion, etc.
The Borg thing was shameless enough, but it could have slid by if it was an isolated incident. But the Ferengi? That was too much.
Its a matter of logic. Those species we see in Enterprise should be well within the Federation's general area. Then the series should progressively expand. The result of expansion and exploration is an increasing variety of aliens. When TOS started you had Vulcans, Andorians, Orions, and some others. Then TNG added more. Then DS9 and Voyager.
The Enterprise messed up the expansion timeline royally. IMO it was simply stealing thunder.
With that said, I'm one of the people who liked Enterprise. I just wish it had played up the limitations of the time. I liked the episodes with Tholians, Andorians, Vulcans, Orion, etc.
The Borg thing was shameless enough, but it could have slid by if it was an isolated incident. But the Ferengi? That was too much.
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