Where did Spock go?

[A beaker full of death]

^ Actually, the creative forces (and I use the term loosely) behind the movie have nothing to say about TOS. The movie doesn't change the series. If Spock in the movie says, "I was a serial rapist and joined Starfleet to avoid conviction on Vulcan," that does not become part of the character seen in City on The Edge of Forever.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The morality of time travel "fixes" and the judgment of Spock and everyone else in Trek is always conveniently tailored to the plot of the episode, be it "City On The Edge Of Forever," "All Our Yesterdays " or "The Voyage Home." The writers in this case set things up so that it's not within Spock's power to do anything about cosmic events - that's all. There's no point in citing Spock's past "character" as an excuse to claim that Spock isn't actually Spock.

Spock Prime is Spock from TOS because Nimoy and everyone associated with the movie say that he is. They get the first, last and only word on what's an actual part of Trek "canon" and what's just folks blowing smoke on a BBS.

I know. I just enjoy defending Spock Prime's actions to closed-minded TOS fans.

Playing time police raises some interesting moral questions, beyond the shallow "let's fix the timeline!", too.

 

[xortex]

Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?

 

[Warped9]

Please, things look different in the movie because it's a movie made now and not forty years ago.

It isn't a simple matter of appearance and production standards. It's the little matter of this being produced from the perspective of contemporary Trek as opposed to the universe TOS created.

The Abramsverse is the TOS universe corrupted. It's another universe altogether. Which is fine for a reboot.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?

What an absurd notion that it's reasonably within his power to do.

This is strangely apropos, here:

TV in parallel dimensions

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."

Correct. "Bread and Circuses" confirms the three world wars mentioned in "Space Seed" which is no surprise considering Coon wrote/co-wrote both. Kirk's mention of Earth avoiding a nuclear holocaust is supported by Spock's statement in "Omega Glory" that the Yangs and Kohms, in their post-apocalyptic world, "fought the war your Earth avoided". Populations can be bombed out of existence ("Space Seed" with conventional weapons and Col. Green's series of genocidal wars need not have been global or nuclear. Most likely similar to, but larger than the ethnic cleansing seen in the Balkans during the 1990's.

I know there is at least one episode in S3 that mentions there was a atomic/nuclear holocaust, but if it isn't Bread and Circuses, I don't know which one it exactly is. Do notice that a holocaust is not a war. It seems that even if we used nuclear weapons in the 21st century WWIII, it wasn't used in a full-fledged exchange.

Not to my knowledge. The point of all the "Earth didn't fight a nuclear war" was to say to 1960's audiences who were only a few years past the near-miss of the Cuban Missle Crisis and still frightened the missiles might fly at any moment, "Things are bad, but we're going to work it out". Also, please note: within Star Trek's internal continuity, there was no 21st century world war. World War III, aka the Eugenics Wars, was confined to the 1990's. The mid-21st century nuclear exchange is part of GR's soft reboot of the Trek universe with TNG. It was 1987, we hadn't blown ourselves up or developed anything like the DY-100, so he shifted the whole future time frame forward.

 

[xortex]

Why would prime Spock want to restore anything other than the prime TOS universe?

What an absurd notion that it's reasonably within his power to do.

This is strangely apropos, here:

TV in parallel dimensions

How about within the power of the writers?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why would the writers want to do that?

Goddamn, if they'd been reading Trek boards for the last ten years they might even have gotten the impression, somehow, that Trek fans don't like the so-called "reset button."

 

[Ronald Held]

An axion of Surak is, " the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". That alone should guide Spock to try and save Vulcan.
This is another universe, in which t does not follow that Hobus will destroy Romulus and Remus? Does time agent Daniels and coworkers patrol any timelines but the prime one?
Finally, in the TOS era, did not every ship have its own "logo", which change before ST vI?
An image in my catalogue has a Kelvin uniform with the Enterprise chevon on it as well as on cadet uniforms.Another piece of evidence that the JJverse did not come from the Prime one.

 

[Warped9]

Why would the writers want to do that?

Goddamn, if they'd been reading Trek boards for the last ten years they might even have gotten the impression, somehow, that Trek fans don't like the so-called "reset button."

The whole point of this film is to start afresh. And that's what they did. So what's the problem?

 

[Harvey]

Which of course doesn't matter, because when Spock met Kirk, he was a cadet, and would have the rank insignias to prove it.

Did he? At the time, Kirk just had the black undershirt on, not the gold tunic which indicates rank. Of course, the undershirt is a change to the original uniforms.

An image in my catalogue has a Kelvin uniform with the Enterprise chevon on it as well as on cadet uniforms.Another piece of evidence that the JJverse did not come from the Prime one.

Back to this again? The original Star Trek used the Enterprise insignias for non-Enterprise officers on multiple occasions. "Court Martial" comes to mind as a pertinent example.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Back to this again? The original Star Trek used the Enterprise insignias for non-Enterprise officers on multiple occasions. "Court Martial" comes to mind as a pertinent example.

There's no evidence in TOS that the chevron insignia is associated only with the Enterprise - it appears on other personnel as early as "The Cage" and on occasion later. The "it's the Enterprise emblem" explanation for it was manufactured after the fact, as was a lot of other "basic" Trek lore - hell, they didn't officially settle the time period as being in the 23rd century until the movies.

The best evidence that AbramsTrek fits into the ongoing Trek Universe may, in fact, be that it's inconsistent.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which of course doesn't matter, because when Spock met Kirk, he was a cadet, and would have the rank insignias to prove it.

Did he? At the time, Kirk just had the black undershirt on, not the gold tunic which indicates rank. Of course, the undershirt is a change to the original uniforms.
.

They used the black undershirts in TOS, the only difference was they were short sleeved.

 

[Harvey]

I recall some instances of black undershirts, and others where the black part was just attached to the tunic--I'm blanking on the episode, but McCoy tears Kirk's tunic to inject him with a hypospray in the end of it and there's no black undershirt.

 

[Mytran]

You're probably thinking of Naked Time. When Spock and Tormolen get their physicals from McCoy they're wearing black T-shirts. Kirk though (when he get injected with the antidote) apparently doesn't wear one.

 

[Harvey]

Yeah, it was "The Naked Time." Just blanked on the episode title...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Which of course doesn't matter, because when Spock met Kirk, he was a cadet, and would have the rank insignias to prove it.

Did he? At the time, Kirk just had the black undershirt on, not the gold tunic which indicates rank.

According to the transporter display screen (when they are trying to beam up Sulu and Kirk from the drill site), Kirk is a Lieutenant at that point.

 

[Harvey]

Right, but there's no way Spock could know that.

 

[Gepard]

The only known exception to this rule on the Internet is Languatron.

1.) I thought he locked his fora so only he could read them, and

2.) The level of mental illness necessary to produce his sheer quantity of monologues is...staggering.

 

[Myko]

Spock can't save Vulcan, that's not how timelines work (in modern Trek). He can travel to a point in time where Vulcan exists and save it there, and live out his life in that timeline. The Abramsverse timeline with a destroyed Vulcan will continue to exist. The sum of all existing planets Vulcan across all timelines is constant.