Who did Spock mind meld with before "Dagger of the Mind"?

[CorporalCaptain]

I mean, where's Colt?

Where'd Kevin Riley go? Or Lt. DeSalle? Two officers who served aboard the TOS Enterprise, one of whom was in command, who each appeared in more TOS episodes than Colt did*, who vanished without a trace. Very possibly simply reassigned. If they could come and go without explanation, why couldn't Colt, or José Tyler, Jones/Smith, etc.? We could still see Colt, but so what if we don't?

* - I mean, unless we get pedantic and try to push the idea that Colt was in three episodes, instead of just the one.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I tend to regard all of TOS as "Early Installment Weirdness". There's so many things in that show that later series have changed up, and that was well before Kurtzman came along. The changes/retcons came right when TNG started and have only added more since. Like the idea that no one would have ever heard of Pon Farr. That was fine when it was just TOS and Spock seemed to be the only alien officer on board, but now after everything that came learning about Human/Vulcan relations, that doesn't seem very plausible.

TOS also loved to exaggerate the stakes with "this has never been done before", like the idea of beaming within a ship in "Day of the Dove". They try to sell it as a risky move, but then they actually do it and it's just another standard transport effect.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't know, but if Kurtzman is going to claim his show is a prequel to the original TOS, then he should anticipate that people are going to notice when the show ignores whatever has been established in the original. That's just basic prep for a prequel. I mean, where's Colt? Why have Chapel on the Enterprise and not Colt? Or Jose Tyler? Why bring on McCoy and M'Benga and not Boyce or Piper? He's obviously diverging from the original series. It's more than one or two discontinuities. It's choices to break with the original series. That's why it makes sense to see SNW as an alternate universe.

Why would Colt and Tyler have to be on the ship when it's been years since the Cage? Same for Boyce. They haven't said they were never on the ship. So there is no divergence.

 

[Nerys Myk]

AS for the question. I assume Spock was instructed in Melding by someone. Possibly in an academic setting, So perhaps a teacher was his first meld.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

It's easy to infer why SNW didn't just keep the whole bridge crew from "The Cage": They were a very very white cast. That was one of the first things NBC saw and asked to change up in 1965, which is how we got a diverse crew in regular TOS. It would be weird to walk back on a major casting staple of Trek just to adhere to a pilot's cast of characters. And given how most of that bridge crew were nondescript, they were fairly easy to replace.

What was unique about Tyler, aside from the fact he was the helmsman in one episode? Colt seemed to only exist to pine over Pike, which I don't think the writers were interested in developing. As much as I like Boyce and wouldn't have minded seeing him as the CMO, he was also a proto-Bones as much as Pike was a proto-Kirk. They weren't gonna just repeat the Kirk/Bones dynamic, it was an opportunity to differentiate Pike from Kirk, so replacing Boyce with M'Benga made sense to make it different from TOS in terms of character dynamics.

I'd still like to see Boyce make a guest appearance, but I'm not holding that against SNW.

 

[Greg Cox]

Why would Colt and Tyler have to be on the ship when it's been years since the Cage? Same for Boyce. They haven't said they were never on the ship. So there is no divergence.

Exactly. Since SNW takes place years after “The Cage,” as clearly established on Discovery, it makes sense that some crew members have moved on since that mission. Pike captained the Enterprise for more than eleven years; there was bound to be some turnover in the crew.

Heck, it’s not as though Janice Rand stuck around for Kirk’s entire five-year mission.

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly. Since SNW takes place years after “The Cage,” as clearly established on Discovery, it makes sense that some crew members have moved on since that mission. Pike captained the Enterprise for more than eleven years; there was bound to be some turnover in the crew.

Heck, it’s not as though Janice Rand stuck around for Kirk’s entire five-year mission.

Most people are looking to move on in their career, and not be in the same position forever.

 

[Greg Cox]

And given that Boyce was hardly a young man, it's entirely plausible that he could have retired by the time SNW starts up.

It's perhaps worth remembering that "The Cage" was just one mission in Pike's eleven-year stint as captain of the Enterprise. Granted, it was the only mission we ever saw onscreen prior to the modern era, but it's a hardly "canon" that his crew remained the same for all eleven years.

Plus, in real life, it was a pilot for a proposed series, so almost by definition, it was just a rough draft to be tinkered with later, if and when NBC greenlighted the series. Indeed, it's very possible that, had NBC not rejected "The Cage" and proceeded with Hunter as the captain, there would have been some changes in the cast when it came time to shoot the actual series. (See the discrepancies between "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and the rest of TOS.)

The only reason we even knew about Pike and that Talos IV mission was because time and budget crunches forced Roddenberry to repurpose that footage via flashbacks in "The Menagerie."

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The only reason we even knew about Pike and that Talos IV mission was because time and budget crunches forced Roddenberry to repurpose that footage via flashbacks in "The Menagerie."

Indeed. So far as I'm aware, the first time the public saw the pilot for Get Smart was when it was included in the full-series DVD set. It's the only black-and-white episode, and it runs short, at least by 1960s half-hour sitcom standards.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I think I've said this already, but I see SNW kinda like Smallville, in that you know where everyone is gonna end up but they're getting there their own way and some of the characters are totally different interpretations. Maybe it happened this way, maybe it happened another way, take it or leave it.

I once said to a friend of mine that Smallville was basically a fever dream version of the DC Universe.

Those are modern shows, written to the standards of modern prestige television, by largely the same creative team, within a short period of time.

I didn't mean the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul comparison as an exact parallel. I wanted to make the point that it IS possible to make a good prequel that doesn't contradict the original willy willy.

 

[fireproof78]

didn't mean the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul comparison as an exact parallel. I wanted to make the point that it IS possible to make a good prequel that doesn't contradict the original willy willy.

Just need the same writer.


Except Star Trek has never done that. YATI prevails!

 

[Denise]

Was Piper just filling in for McCoy?

 

[BillJ]

Was Piper just filling in for McCoy?

I think that was how they played it in Enterprise: The First Adventure by Vonda McIntyre.

 

[Denise]

I think that was how they played it in Enterprise: The First Adventure by Vonda McIntyre.

But the novels are not "canon." As far as I can see, at this point I agree with someone in another thread that the whole Trek World can be decanonized at this point because there are so many discontinuities in the original show and shows going forward that there's little point in claiming that any of it is canon. And maybe that's a good thing allowing it to be whatever any studio, director, writer, or fan wants it to be.

 

[BillJ]

But the novels are not "canon."

I quit caring about canon about 15 years ago. I just want some decent sci-fi stories with some action adventure mixed in.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Was Piper just filling in for McCoy?

Canon is silent on this matter.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I don't know, but if Kurtzman is going to claim his show is a prequel to the original TOS, then he should anticipate that people are going to notice when the show ignores whatever has been established in the original. That's just basic prep for a prequel. I mean, where's Colt? Why have Chapel on the Enterprise and not Colt? Or Jose Tyler? Why bring on McCoy and M'Benga and not Boyce or Piper? He's obviously diverging from the original series. It's more than one or two discontinuities. It's choices to break with the original series. That's why it makes sense to see SNW as an alternate universe.

Exactly Denise. These things are not just something that is difficult to see or remember. Its easy continuity stuff and canon well known to fans. The purposefully ignored it all because they wanted all well known tos characters abd situations in their show. They used the Gorn, the metrons and Trelane. All beings or aliens that were distinctly encountered first in TOS. What next are we going to see Pikes enterprise encounter the doomsday machine first? Balock?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Was Piper just filling in for McCoy?

I think that was how they played it in Enterprise: The First Adventure by Vonda McIntyre.

And also in "All Those Years Ago..." by Mike W. Barr and David Ross in DC Comics' Star Trek Annual #1. McCoy tells Kirk that he'll need someone to fill in for him when his daughter Joanna graduates from college and mentions that Dr. Piper is in between assignments.

 

[The Wormhole]

I mean, where's Colt?

The smartass in me wants to point out that Colt was on Disco, but that won't help matters any since they turned her into a spiky faced alien for some reason. But really, SNW doesn't seem to acknowledge the existence of Yeomans (outside of the Rigel episode) as indeed TOS itself did by the second season. With that in mind, what really can be done with Colt?

Or Jose Tyler?

Was Jose Tyler really that memorable a character? I mean, really?

Why bring on McCoy and M'Benga and not Boyce or Piper?

Disco already implied Boyce was gone given in the finale two-parter Culber was offered a transfer to the Enterprise, which he was going to accept until at the last minute deciding to join the Disco crew on their journey to the 32nd century. As for Piper, no one ever acknowledges him. Hell, even the novels contrive a reason to bring McCoy in early to avoid using Piper, or they just ignore sickbay altogether. The only time Piper was in a novel he was there just long enough to be killed. There was never any reason to expect him to be on SNW.

 

[Henoch]

Timeline-wise, McCoy needs to spend ~3 months on Planet Capella Four (TOS:Friday's Child):

SCOTT: How long were you stationed on the planet, Doctor?
MCCOY: Only a few months. We found them totally uninterested in medical aid or hospitals. They believe only the strong should survive.

Based on the video that shows McCoy wearing the "new" Starfleet uniform, this places his planet assignment after WNMHGB and before the regular TOS series. I head canon McCoy joining the ship during its refit after WNMHGB.