What's so great about Firefly?

[Gaith]

A captain's goal was simple: find a crew, find a job, keep flying.

Now, you might not think that is a life worth living, but you can't argue it wasn't addressed.

That's a short-term goal; I wanted some hint of a longer-term goal. Instead, in the pilot alone, I got toy dinosaurs, a useless action prologue, and several other flabby scenes.

If anyone is satisfied with Mal's apparent lack of long-term ambition, super; I don't begrudge anyone this entertainment. After all, no more than half of humanity can lead above-average lives. (Edit: let me just be totally clear that I am not dissing those who enjoy Firefly, or saying that doing so is in any way a character fault.) But while I hardly think of myself as extraordinary, nor am I terrifically impressed with my current state, I do think I've got some decent potential, and I do have hopes and dreams of playing a damn good game of life. Based on what I saw, I'm not sure that any of the main characters have such ambition, barring maybe Book, with his belief that he can make significant and uplifting spiritual impact on the outer planet's peoples, and Simon, with his outstanding dedication to protecting his sister. The rest just seem to be coasting. So, I'll stick with my Starfleeters, thanks.

I think Mal was doing exactly what he wanted to be doing... They can't take the sky from him.

Funny; many posters here have repeatedly explained to me in this very thread that Mal can't even take the time to dream about an ideal future, because he lives in well-justified, constant fear of the sky being taken from him.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Speaking of which, Firefly also loses major points for having such nauseating music.

Now THAT'S purely a matter of taste. I rather like the music myself. Wouldn't mind being a crew on the Serenity, either. I could be the guy that hacks computers.

Wouldn't that turn it into Cowboy Bebop, Ed?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Speaking of which, Firefly also loses major points for having such nauseating music.

Now THAT'S purely a matter of taste. I rather like the music myself.

I thought the actual score for the series was rather good, by television standards. It was energetic and did a solid job of complimenting the tone of the series. And I'm not one to usually enjoy steel guitar twang.

That theme song, on the other hand. Pure fromage.

 

[Forbin]

J'aime le fromage

 

[infinix]

If anyone is satisfied with Mal's apparent lack of long-term ambition, super; I don't begrudge anyone this entertainment. After all, no more than half of humanity can lead above-average lives. (Edit: let me just be totally clear that I am not dissing those who enjoy Firefly, or saying that doing so is in any way a character fault.) But while I hardly think of myself as extraordinary, nor am I terrifically impressed with my current state, I do think I've got some decent potential, and I do have hopes and dreams of playing a damn good game of life. Based on what I saw, I'm not sure that any of the main characters have such ambition, barring maybe Book, with his belief that he can make significant and uplifting spiritual impact on the outer planet's peoples, and Simon, with his outstanding dedication to protecting his sister. The rest just seem to be coasting. So, I'll stick with my Starfleeters, thanks.

Wait, are you suggesting that a person must have a long term goal in order to be considered leading an above-average live? A person who is trying to find his place int he world (Mal) can't be considered above average?

Mal focuses on surviving and protecting his crew. He is very typical of a person who is down on his luck yet still tries to live according to his distinct set of morality. His crew are loyal to him because of this. Later on, we see that Mal starts to compromise his own morals and his crew reacts accordingly.

I don't think "surviving" is any less grand of a goal as "to seek out new life and new civilization." Especially for those who don't have the luxury of the Federation (or the Alliance.)

 

[Bishop76]

That and I think you'd be hard pressed to express the "long term goals" of any given character on any show. What was Kirk's or Picard's long term goal? What about Han Solo? I just can't see this argument being truly valid.

 

[Mistral]

That and I think you'd be hard pressed to express the "long term goals" of any given character on any show. What was Kirk's or Picard's long term goal? What about Han Solo? I just can't see this argument being truly valid.

I'll take it a step further-the author of that complaint is attempting to find something wrong with the show. Long term goals? Seriously? He had a ship, a new crew and was trying to get his head above water. When you're worried about your next meal what color shirt you'll wear in a month fails to matter.

 

[Greg Cox]

That and I think you'd be hard pressed to express the "long term goals" of any given character on any show. What was Kirk's or Picard's long term goal? What about Han Solo? I just can't see this argument being truly valid.

Indeed. I'm not sure a character needs some sort of heroic destiny or goal to be compelling.

The Fugititive just wanted to clear his name so that (presumably) he could go back to living a perfectly ordinary life. Ditto for David Banner in THE INCREDIBLE HULK. Dexter spends most of his time just trying to avoid being exposed as a serial killer. The folks on C.S.I are just doing their jobs. Tom Joad just wants to hold his family together during the Great Depression.

Survival in perilous circumstances is heroic enough sometimes.

 

[Vulpes]

I think that many of the Trek character do have long-term goals. Self-improvement is a big one, even if it is rather vague—but long-term goals are sometimes necessarily vague.

Trying to get by, in it of itself, is not a valiant goal. That's not to say it isn't a worthwhile goal, but it still won't change the lives of millions, enhance our understanding of the universe, or have profound philosophical implications.

The Firefly people want to live their own lives—but why? If they don't have long-term goals, if they don't have a vision for the future, why did they bother to rebel, especially against a group that does seem to have those things?

I, personally, hope to do more with my life than just "get by". I don't know what I will do, but I'm not content to let my existence mean nothing, to have no effect on the universe. So I'm not all that fascinated with a guy who thinks no further than his next paycheck.

It's not that they can't act on their big plans that bothers me—it's that they don't have any big plans to begin with.

Also, I can't feel sorry for a guy who's struggling to make ends meet when he rejects help (the alliance).

 

[Greylock Crescent]

That and I think you'd be hard pressed to express the "long term goals" of any given character on any show. What was Kirk's or Picard's long term goal? What about Han Solo? I just can't see this argument being truly valid.

One could argue that Picard and Kirk had the long-term goals of "seeking out new life and new civilizations." Individual episodes were often related to this, but each installment usually featured a different kind of short-term goal. The Fugitive's and The Hulk's goals are also more long-term than short-term. At least as far as the individual shows were concerned (i.e. they didn't achieve their goals in just an episode or two). Heck, even a procedural show like The Mentalist gives its main character a long-term goal. So I do believe there is validity in portraying a main character who is working toward something bigger, while struggling with the more immediate conflicts of individual episodes.

That being said, I think you can make a case that Mal does have a long-term goal -- namely that of having the freedom to live his life according to his own rules and standards of morality (which is the reason why, I would infer, that he joined the Browncoats to begin with -- and rejects the overly meddlesome Alliance). His "just getting by" or "keeping his head above water" is merely the means by which he's going about achieving his long-term goal of having personal liberty. And honestly, I can see why that long-term goal would resonate with a lot of viewers.

 

[Amaris]

I think that many of the Trek character do have long-term goals. Self-improvement is a big one, even if it is rather vague—but long-term goals are sometimes necessarily vague.

Trying to get by, in it of itself, is not a valiant goal. That's not to say it isn't a worthwhile goal, but it still won't change the lives of millions, enhance our understanding of the universe, or have profound philosophical implications.

The Firefly people want to live their own lives—but why? If they don't have long-term goals, if they don't have a vision for the future, why did they bother to rebel, especially against a group that does seem to have those things?

I, personally, hope to do more with my life than just "get by". I don't know what I will do, but I'm not content to let my existence mean nothing, to have no effect on the universe. So I'm not all that fascinated with a guy who thinks no further than his next paycheck.

Also, I can't feel sorry for a guy who's struggling to make ends meet when he rejects help (the alliance).

Personal freedom is a powerful thing that, in itself, can motivate one throughout life. The Captain and crew of Serenity have a long term goal. It's called "live a long time before dying". They aim to do so with as much personal freedom as possible.

 

[Vulpes]

Personal freedom is a powerful thing that, in itself, can motivate one throughout life. The Captain and crew of Serenity have a long term goal. It's called "live a long time before dying". They aim to do so with as much personal freedom as possible.

And after their lives, will anyone remember them? Will they have done anything worth remembering?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Personal freedom is a powerful thing that, in itself, can motivate one throughout life. The Captain and crew of Serenity have a long term goal. It's called "live a long time before dying". They aim to do so with as much personal freedom as possible.

And after their lives, will anyone remember them? Will they have done anything worth remembering?

Just because you find the notion of achieving freedom from an oppressive society to be, in of itself, unworthy of remembrance that doesn't immediately invalidate such a goal.

 

[Amaris]

Personal freedom is a powerful thing that, in itself, can motivate one throughout life. The Captain and crew of Serenity have a long term goal. It's called "live a long time before dying". They aim to do so with as much personal freedom as possible.

And after their lives, will anyone remember them? Will they have done anything worth remembering?

Does it matter? Does everything have to be a milestone in the grand scheme? Still, you want to be remembered, they want to be free to live their lives as they see fit. Sounds to me like the two aren't all that mutually incompatible. So why the noise?

 

[Sindatur]

Personal freedom is a powerful thing that, in itself, can motivate one throughout life. The Captain and crew of Serenity have a long term goal. It's called "live a long time before dying". They aim to do so with as much personal freedom as possible.

And after their lives, will anyone remember them? Will they have done anything worth remembering?

And what is your long term goal that will have the Universe remembering how you changed it? Unless you're some kind of famous artist (Writer, actor, singer, sculptor, painter, etc) or some famous Sports star, I suspect, like Mal, you will be remembered by your family and friends only. If you're not expecting Millions to remember you for changing the Universe, why is this a complaint about the Series Firefly?

Living a life of oppresion, where your goal is to live a free life, you really don't ahve the resources to worry too much about what comes next after Freedom. Take for example the folks in Egypt or Libya, or anywhere else, where protestors are looking for Freedom. Are you really saying that's not enough, until they get the Freedom to actually make lifelong goals?

And...where did this idea come from that Mal and the Crew are Freedom Fighters? I never got that from the Series (True, I've only caught about half of it on a marathon, and watched the box set through once). I see a guy who owns a ship, who is just like any other character on any other show who owns a ship and isn't part of a military or Alliance Fleet (And is protecting River from being experimented on more). His ship is his Castle. He's a Smuggler, he doesn't go after Alliance targets or try to bring them down, he avoids being by them. He's just looking to make a living, and if the Alliance happens to get hurt in the process, so much the better, but, hurting the Alliance isn't his goal. If someone is going to get hurt by his smuggling/Piracy, then yea, the Alliance is his first choice to hurt, but, hurting them isn't his goal.

Sure, looking at the development of the Series, and especially the Movie Serenity, it's easy to see Whedon may have inteded for the group to eventually become Freedon Fighters, but, they certainly aren't portrayed as that in the 13 episdoes we got, IMHO.

 

[infinix]

Trying to get by, in it of itself, is not a valiant goal. That's not to say it isn't a worthwhile goal, but it still won't change the lives of millions, enhance our understanding of the universe, or have profound philosophical implications.

By that standard, we would have to dismiss about 99.99999% of the entire population. Most people are just trying to do right by those they love and provide for those in their care. This is what Mal is trying to do. Not everyone gets to be presidents or Nobel Laureates or great philosophers.

Does it matter? Does everything have to be a milestone in the grand scheme? Still, you want to be remembered, they want to be free to live their lives as they see fit. Sounds to me like the two aren't all that mutually incompatible. So why the noise?

I agree with this. When you move on from this world, you will be remember by those closest to you. How you lived your live will determine how you are remembered. As far as I can tell, Mal is leading a life that will be remembered fondly by those around him.

Yes, Mal is a small time crook that breaks the law and yes, Mal is not a good role model in a functioning society. But he genuinely cares for his crew while still upholding his own set of principles. That makes him a character I can care about.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

And...where did this idea come from that Mal and the Crew are Freedom Fighters? I never got that from the Series (True, I've only caught about half of it on a marathon, and watched the box set through once). I see a guy who owns a ship, who is just like any other character on any other show who owns a ship and isn't part of a military or Alliance Fleet (And is protecting River from being experimented on more). His ship is his Castle. He's a Smuggler, he doesn't go after Alliance targets or try to bring them down, he avoids being by them. He's just looking to make a living, and if the Alliance happens to get hurt in the process, so much the better, but, hurting the Alliance isn't his goal. If someone is going to get hurt by his smuggling/Piracy, then yea, the Alliance is his first choice to hurt, but, hurting them isn't his goal.

Sure, looking at the development of the Series, and especially the Movie Serenity, it's easy to see Whedon may have inteded for the group to eventually become Freedon Fighters, but, they certainly aren't portrayed as that in the 13 episdoes we got, IMHO.

I don't see where anyone is advocating that Mal is a Freedom Fighter ... merely that he's fighting for his own personal freedoms from an otherwise oppressive society. At least, that's the distinction I make.

 

[Neroon]

The bottom line is that there are several different kinds of stories to tell, and a myriad of ways to tell them. Not every single one of those stories is required to be built upon a grand scale. I enjoy the grand tale, ala "Lord of the Rings" and "Raiders of the lost Ark" and more. I also enjoy the smaller more intimate ones that get into a person's head, or see them living day to day, ala Mal and "Firefly". In a way that is an even more challenging type of story - and by extension television episode - to tell and make interesting to folk.

I don't see where anyone is advocating that Mal is a Freedom Fighter ... merely that he's fighting for his own personal freedoms from an otherwise oppressive society. At least, that's the distinction I make.

In the television series, that's probably true. At least insofar as I can recollect. In the movie "Serenity" however, Mal seems to shift more towards the "greater good" end of the scale.

 

[Sindatur]

And...where did this idea come from that Mal and the Crew are Freedom Fighters? I never got that from the Series (True, I've only caught about half of it on a marathon, and watched the box set through once). I see a guy who owns a ship, who is just like any other character on any other show who owns a ship and isn't part of a military or Alliance Fleet (And is protecting River from being experimented on more). His ship is his Castle. He's a Smuggler, he doesn't go after Alliance targets or try to bring them down, he avoids being by them. He's just looking to make a living, and if the Alliance happens to get hurt in the process, so much the better, but, hurting the Alliance isn't his goal. If someone is going to get hurt by his smuggling/Piracy, then yea, the Alliance is his first choice to hurt, but, hurting them isn't his goal.

Sure, looking at the development of the Series, and especially the Movie Serenity, it's easy to see Whedon may have inteded for the group to eventually become Freedon Fighters, but, they certainly aren't portrayed as that in the 13 episdoes we got, IMHO.

I don't see where anyone is advocating that Mal is a Freedom Fighter ... merely that he's fighting for his own personal freedoms from an otherwise oppressive society. At least, that's the distinction I make.

Maybe I misread, or remembered wrong, but, I'm pretty sure a couple/few pages back, it was being argued that he doesn't do much Freedom Fighting for being a Freedom Fighter.

 

[Forbin]

His ship is his Castle.

I see what you did there!