DS9 for those who don't necessarily love DS9?

[Gaith]

I've long been interested in checking out DS9, because I've heard from a lot of smart people that it’s the best-written and most complex Trek series, as well as the most serialized, and, hey, who doesn’t love a properly serialized sci-fi war epic.

That said, from the handful of eps I’ve seen, I don’t think I fundamentally like the show very much. I don’t like the drab look of the station, and, nothing against the cast, I don’t find the characters particularly appealing, either. The Ferengi seem uniformly obnoxious by design, Odo’s smooth face is off-putting (and I like Auberjonois from Boston Legal), and the rest seem like various shades of unremarkable (except for Worf, of course, because Worf’s awesome). What’s more, I’m not hugely jazzed at the idea of a Trek series ending with its captain ascending to a kind of godhood.

Then there’s the series’ much-balleyhooed crown jewel, “In the Pale Moonlight.” I’ve seen it twice, and I think Michelle Erica Green got it right the first time around; the scenario isn't nearly as edgy as the episode seemed to think:

I must say that I think the flashback-via-diary structure for this episode was a mistake, because I had a really hard time not laughing at Avery Brooks' earnest, emotional monologues in Sisko's personal logs.​

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[...] If he was really feeling guilty about the dead enemy agent and the man the Klingons were going to execute anyway, his skin isn't nearly tough enough for him to be a captain during wartime.​

So, given the above, I was interested to come across this here series guide (in the form of a very tall image file) by one “Spectrum,” rating each episode by both quality and narrative importance. Two key observations:

- Of the episodes deemed as having Major importance, only two (“Sons and Daughters” and “His Way”) get a quality rating of less than Good. (The reviewer rates “In the Pale Moonlight” as Great; take that as one will.)

- Of the episodes rated Great, only six (“Duet,” “Necessary Evil,” “The Visitor,” “Trials and Tribble-ations,” “Far Beyond the Stars,” “It’s Only a Paper Moon”) are deemed to have no narrative importance, and only one ("The Wire") is deemed to have minor importance.

So, I wonder if a Niner skeptic like me, were I ever to really explore the show, wouldn’t be best advised to only watch the 40 or so episodes (some of them two-parters) rated as having Major importance. Maybe if I loved those episodes, I’d be inspired to go back on catch up on those I missed, but please, no suggestions to simply grit my teeth and watch them from start to finish – sorry, but that’s a no-go for now.

Any other thoughts? Is Spectrum’s list of episodes of Major importance missing any big ones? Is the guide missing any Great episodes that aren't of at least mild overall importance?

 

[ananta]

Lists like that are kind of pointless to me, because it’s not some laboratory based, scientific theorem. It’s largely based on opinion, which naturally varies.

Frankly, from the attitude of your post (don’t take this personally because it’s not intended as a criticism), and the fact you’ve already watched some episodes and have a uniformly negative take on it…I wouldn’t bother watching any more. It’s probably not for you. Even by the first few episodes I was beginning to fall in love with the characters and the potential offered by the basic premise. It took a little while to reach its peak but when it does I believe it becomes one of the best TV shows ever made; something I’ve not been able to say about any post-DS9 Trek.

If you’ve already dipped in and can’t find anything to like, then stick to whatever Trek you do like. I know better than to try to proselytise.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I've long been interested in checking out DS9, because I've heard from a lot of smart people that it’s the best-written and most complex Trek series, as well as the most serialized, and, hey, who doesn’t love a properly serialized sci-fi war epic.

If you don't want to watch, don't watch. I won't be angry.

Then there’s the series’ much-balleyhooed crown jewel, “In the Pale Moonlight.” I’ve seen it twice, and I think Michelle Erica Green got it right the first time around; the scenario isn't nearly as edgy as the episode seemed to think:

[...] If he was really feeling guilty about the dead enemy agent and the man the Klingons were going to execute anyway, his skin isn't nearly tough enough for him to be a captain during wartime.

I though Green's critiques, not just this one, often were an attempt to look important. This last one is silly. Veterans have regrets, even for things that were perfectly legit. My great uncle was haunted by the death of the Japanese soldiers he torched in WWII.

So, given the above, I was interested to come across this here series guide (in the form of a very tall image file) by one “Spectrum,” rating each episode by both quality and narrative importance. Two key observations:

Don't know who this is or why I should give this reviewer more weight than anyone else. There are plenty of watch lists. And I'm not sure why I should work hard to provide you a list for something you seem intent on hating.

 

[Tosk]

If you already don't like what you've seen, I wouldn't bother. It doesn't sound like you really want to anyway so why force it?

 

[Gaith]

If you’ve already dipped in and can’t find anything to like

That's not the case, though I can see why my opening statement may have given that impression. I haven't found the characters super appealing so far, but I think it's a generally strong cast (far stronger than Enterprise, certainly), and I only outright dislike the Ferengi melodrama. For example, I liked everything in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" apart from its super-cringey Ferengi stuff, and not just because Robert Picardo was in a few scenes (though that certainly didn't hurt). As I said, I like the idea of a darker, and more cerebral Trek that's both serialized and well-written. I generally like the Cardassian characters, from what I've seen in episodes such as "Defiant," and not just because Frakes was in that episode (though that didn't hurt, either). And, what TNG fan doesn't like Worf?

Just because I'm not inclined to watch the whole thing as an initial approach doesn't mean I have zero interest in the series. I thought this series was all about exploring complex matters?

I know better than to try to proselytise.

I certainly made no such request, but, okay.

I though Green's critiques, not just this one, often were an attempt to look important. This last one is silly. Veterans have regrets, even for things that were perfectly legit. My great uncle was haunted by the death of the Japanese soldiers he torched in WWII.

IIRC, Sisko physically assaulted Garak for doing something that had a very high chance of saving the Federation. That's not feeling haunted; that's some glaringly disproportionate rage at breaking the rules.