What's so great about Firefly?

[Mistral]

I've heard:

It's boring.

What do you need, an explosion a minute?

No, I need no explosions at all. Or bar fights. Or chase scenes.

I have a difference concept of "boring" than most people's.

Might I suggest Howard's End?

 

[Gaith]

Look at BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID, for instance. They weren't trying to clean up the west or overthrow a corrupt regime, but that was still a great movie.

Ohhh... haven't seen that in nearly a decade... but, a) weren't they being actively and specifically pursued the whole movie? (Active opposition villain), b) it was just one movie, not an open-ended series (the prequel notwithstanding), and c) didn't the two of 'em have clearly articulated and actively pursued dreams of peaceful and luxurious retirement?

I'm not saying Firefly was a necessarily unworkable idea, but in the first four eps and the movie, these character/world basics just weren't vivid enough to hold my interest. Not to say it was bad, just not up my alley.

 

[saturn5]

I have very little tolerance for renegades/rebels/rogues, UNLESS the thing that they are rebelling against is obviously evil and definitely deserves to be rebelled against. .

Honestly, I never saw FIREFLY as a show about plucky rebels fighting an evil, oppressive tyranny. It was a scifi western about hardscrabble, vaguely disreputable rogues and outlaws trying to make a living on the final frontier.

Sure, they occasionally ran into sinister government agents, but unlike, say, V or STAR WARS, that wasn't really the thrust of the series. I suspect that most of the crew would have snickered at the idea that they were some sort of heroic freedom fighters . . . .

And if there's one thing the STAR WARS prequel trilogy proves, it's that a good space opera needs a few irreverent Han Solo types to keep the good guys from taking themselves too seriously.

Joss himself says that he thinks of the Alliance as a largely benevolent force, it just sticks it's nose in where it doesn't belong (like The Initiative in Buffy?). I always wondered did he watch Blakes 7 growing up in the UK, the similarities between it and Firefly are interesting. As for Outcasts...

 

[infinix]

Right, but what kind of living? What does Mal really want? I have a hard time connecting to a character who doesn't dream big about something. Would he like to settle down with Inara on a farm somewhere? Fight another war? Become a smuggling kingpin, with numerous gangsters at his command? Que, hombre, que?

My take on it was that Mal was still searching for a purpose after the brown coats lost the war. He truly believed in what he was fighting for, which was for the border worlds to govern themselves. However, his government gave up the fight before he did and he has been trying to deal with it ever since.

You are right that he doesn't seem to have a grand plan, but in reality, very few people do have a grand plan for their live. Of those who knows exactly what they want and strive after it, many gets side tracked by unforeseen life events. Mal is one of those who had a goal in life, but that goal was taken away from him and he was powerless to prevent it. Now, he is simply drifting along, trying to find another purpose in life.

If the show had gone on long enough, I can see Mal becoming involved in some sort of resistance. Too bad we will never know.

 

[Agenda]

I don't like Firefly, or much of Whedon's work, primarily because of the dialogue. I'm not saying he's not a talent, but he often superimposes his writer's voice on his characters (i.e. that trademark smart, sarcastic Whedonesque wit) and it just takes me out of the show.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

I suspect that most of the crew would have snickered at the idea that they were some sort of heroic freedom fighters . . .

Aye, but isn't the fact that they were failed freedom fighters one of, if not THE, central traits, of several of the characters, Mal included? Sure, apart from the pilot's opening sequence, that's backstory, but it very much informs the series as a whole, and to say otherwise, imho, misses the mark.

As someone said upthread - no, they weren't really freedom fighters. That is, they weren't fighting to overthrow the Alliance as some oppressive force, only to be able to live without Alliance influence in their particular neck of the woods.

Right, but what kind of living? What does Mal really want? I have a hard time connecting to a character who doesn't dream big about something. Would he like to settle down with Inara on a farm somewhere? Fight another war? Become a smuggling kingpin, with numerous gangsters at his command? Que, hombre, que?

Dreaming of personal freedom and the ability to determine one's own fate isn't big? Isn't that what we're all after? Mal is interesting precisely because his whole construction asks the question - what do you fight for when everything you fought for has been lost?

 

[Gaith]

Mal is one of those who had a goal in life, but that goal was taken away from him and he was powerless to prevent it. Now, he is simply drifting along, trying to find another purpose in life.

And what was that goal? By which I mean, what was his innate vocation? He was apparently a full-grown man before the war, so he should have some sense of himself. Maybe Whedon felt otherwise, or simply didn't think of it, but I think it is important, and more worth even a few moments of pilot screentime than dinosaur toys.

 

[Forbin]

I think Mal was doing exactly what he wanted to be doing (or trying to, anyway) - living free, captain of his own little ship, following his own rules and personal code of honor, and trying like hell to avoid anyone who would mess with that freedom. On Serenity, cruising out in The Black, he could be free of the meddlesome government that he fought to be free of in the war.

They can't take the sky from him.

 

[Bishop76]

Well, he seemed to be a space trucker. The freedom of the open road and no boss looking over your shoulder would appeal to a lot of people. He was his own boss. I mean, really, this isn't that odd a set up for a TV show. Instead of going out in search of strange new worlds, he was just out in search of a good paying job and a sense of self-reliance. In both cases, those basic premises were just in place to lead the characters into adventure.

 

[infinix]

And what was that goal? By which I mean, what was his innate vocation? He was apparently a full-grown man before the war, so he should have some sense of himself. Maybe Whedon felt otherwise, or simply didn't think of it, but I think it is important, and more worth even a few moments of pilot screentime than dinosaur toys.

From my understanding of the show, Mal was a career soldier. He grew up on a farm in the outer worlds and was raised by his mom.

I guess you felt that 13 episodes should have been enough to setup all background story of every character. I tend to feel that if given a proper production budget and and proper production schedule, the show could have had a much better time setting everyone up.

Chicken or the Egg.

 

[Vulpes]

I think Mal was doing exactly what he wanted to be doing (or trying to, anyway) - living free, captain of his own little ship, following his own rules and personal code of honor, and trying like hell to avoid anyone who would mess with that freedom. On Serenity, cruising out in The Black, he could be free of the meddlesome government that he fought to be free of in the war.

They can't take the sky from him.

Speaking of which, Firefly also loses major points for having such nauseating music.

 

[Kelso]

^ Pfpfpfpfpf!

 

[infinix]

Speaking of which, Firefly also loses major points for having such nauseating music.

Now THAT'S purely a matter of taste. I rather like the music myself. Wouldn't mind being a crew on the Serenity, either. I could be the guy that hacks computers.

 

[Bishop76]

@ the music hate.

 

[Zod]

Lots of posts already for this thread only a few days old

but its firefly! Reminds me of DragonCon 2008. All the events, all the lines-but none were as big as the line for firefly-and the room was jam packed. It was so much fun it got my friend into the show and he hadn't even watched a single episode.

What can be said about this show that has not already been said? For me its the best Sci Fi show ever created and yet had so few episodes. This makes it even more special since it had little time for character depth-and yet it was all there for such a limited run. The best writing I have seen for any sci fi show before or since along with amazing acting. The backgrounds were so detailed-they did all the little things right.

and Out of Gas is the best hour of TV I have ever seen

 

[bigdaddy]

Lots of posts already for this thread only a few days old

Which is why the show isn't that great.

 

[D Man]

For me its the best Sci Fi show ever created and yet had so few episodes. This makes it even more special since it had little time for character depth-and yet it was all there for such a limited run.

It's not the "best ever" for me, but it's a remarkable show, and you touched on why it stays in my memory so well...its short run and incredible potential gives it an alluring "what if" aura that really appeals to me. Plus the writing and acting was sublime, to my tastes anyways. I totally get why some wouldn't enjoy it, but for me, it was very nearly a perfect show.

Sometimes I wonder if it would have gotten worse over time as many shows do. Then again, I'd have liked to have seen that happen, as long as it meant multiple terrific seasons before the slump. I love the bit on the Serenity special edition cast commentary where Whedon says basically that the movie was his plan for season two. Then Adam Baldwin goes "so what was your plan for the rest of season one?"

 

[Servo]

I always thought a Firefly MMO would be a great idea.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I don't like country music and at first the theme song really irritated me, but I got used to it and it grew on me over time. The lyrics are cute too. I used to think they're cheesy and lame, but now I find them catchy and even a little poignant.

 

[IndyJones]

It was a scifi western about hardscrabble, vaguely disreputable rogues and outlaws trying to make a living on the final frontier.

Right, but what kind of living? What does Mal really want? I have a hard time connecting to a character who doesn't dream big about something. Would he like to settle down with Inara on a farm somewhere? Fight another war? Become a smuggling kingpin, with numerous gangsters at his command? Que, hombre, que?

This complaint is, I think, the most unreasonable of the arguments against the show.

Carefully placed at the end of the first episode is this exchange:

Simon: Are you always this sentimental?
Mal: I had a good day.
Simon: You had the Alliance on you, criminals and savages... half the people on the ship have been shot or wounded including yourself, and you're harboring known fugitives.
Mal: We're still flying.
Simon: That's not much.
Mal: It's enough.

And at the beginning of the first few episodes, Book narrated the following:

After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some disagreement on that point. After the War, many of the Independents who had fought and lost drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggled to get by with the most basic technologies; a ship would bring you work, a gun would help you keep it. A captain's goal was simple: find a crew, find a job, keep flying.

Now, you might not think that is a life worth living, but you can't argue it wasn't addressed. And I'm sure they would have done more if given another 100 episodes.

I've heard:

...
The Chinese aspect didn't seem real. There weren't enough Chinese people visible.

Two cultures hung onto enough tech to bail off Earth. China/US. Chances are, the cross-pollination occurs on border worlds with each culture having spheres of influence in the areas they each settled-which I doubt would be the same worlds. Only at the meeting points would the cultural exchanges influence day-to-day life.

I agree that I would have liked to have seen more of the Chinese influence, but honestly we don't know what happened.

It's just as believable that a few hundred years in Earth's future Chinese had become the World's language and China the dominant culture, just as English and America are today. Chinese language, dress, and art would have seeped into American life.

Now imagine that it's mostly North Americans who were able to leave Earth, or who chose to populate this specific solar system rather than another possibility. So that would leave a group of mostly American descendents with a large Chinese influence.

And though I would have appreciated seeing a more diverse group, I do appreciate that it wasn't just a bunch of people 500 years in the future who's only culture seems to be European Classical music and Shakespeare.