kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Do you then agree that the Delta Vega in the Vulcan system is the same one as in WNMHGB? The writers have said "Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes."
Watched it a 3rd time -- it's great!!
- Thread starter Cheapjack
- Start date
Do you then agree that the Delta Vega in the Vulcan system is the same one as in WNMHGB? The writers have said "Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes."
I-Am-Zim
Captain
That's another reason I don't put a lot of stock in what the writers say they "intended". I read that interview. Orci made it sound as if NuDelta Vega is actually supposed to be the same planet that was seen in WNMHGB. While in another interview they tried to make it sound as if they simply used the name Delta Vega as an homage but it wasn't the same planet (actually, those contradictions may have been in the same interview, I can't remember exactly). Therefore, I have no problem trying to come up with an idea to justify/explain the Kelvin's appearance, completely different stardate system, and myriad other inconsistencies in STXI. When the writers can't even make up their own minds how they want to do things, why should the viewers care what they say? We can interpret their ambiguous statements any way we choose.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
True. To an extent. But who's to say that there arent some larger-than-average asteroids out there that don't have breathable atmospheres. And "Rura Penthe" was never actually mentioned in the movie itself, only in the deleted scenes (which don't count). Who's to say it was Rura Penthe? It could have been another "Klingon prison planet" for all we know.
I don't recall Orci ever saying that. If you can give me the actual source of that quote, I'd appreciate it, because I'm not going to discuss hearsay until I have proof that it's not, or to take one line out of context of the whole interview it was supposedly a part of.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
http://trekmovie.com/2009/04/30/interview-roberto-orci-alex-kurtzman/
Just search for Delta Vega, it's near the top of the page.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Here it is. This is the question and the response:
For the Trek fans, this film includes many little references. For example you have Kirk dropped off on the planet Delta Vega, which was seen in second Star Trek pilot. It is a cool reference, but didn’t you also fudge canon by ignoring that Delta Vega was way out next to the galactic barrier.
Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes. The familiarity of the name seemed more important as an Easter egg, than a new name with no importance.
For the Trek fans, this film includes many little references. For example you have Kirk dropped off on the planet Delta Vega, which was seen in second Star Trek pilot. It is a cool reference, but didn’t you also fudge canon by ignoring that Delta Vega was way out next to the galactic barrier.
Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes. The familiarity of the name seemed more important as an Easter egg, than a new name with no importance.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
Ha! Ya beat me to it by a couple of seconds there!
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
So, in the context of them saying they moved the planet, it's obvious that the intent was that it was the same one. There were any number of one time planets that they could have used that wouldn't have changed canon. If the writers intent is important then you have to conclude that it was supposed to be the same one.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
That was figuratively speaking, not literally.
Speaking figuratively is different to speaking literally.
They wanted the name as an homage. That's it. It's simply NOT the same planet. Period. End of story.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
but didn’t you also fudge canon by ignoring that Delta Vega was way out next to the galactic barrier.
Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes.
Sounds like they fudged canon and literally moved the planet to suit their purposes to me.
Now, if Orci had said something like: "Nah. We just used the name as an homage. The old Delta Vega is right where it's supposed to be. This is not meant to be the same one", that would be different. But he didn't.
They moved Delta Vega. Orci said it. End of story.
Orci: True. Yeah we did. We moved the planet to suit our purposes.
Sounds like they fudged canon and literally moved the planet to suit their purposes to me.
Now, if Orci had said something like: "Nah. We just used the name as an homage. The old Delta Vega is right where it's supposed to be. This is not meant to be the same one", that would be different. But he didn't.
They moved Delta Vega. Orci said it. End of story.
Zim, THEY WERE, IN FACT, OBVIOUS TO ANYONE WITH COMMON BLOODY SENSE, SPEAKING FIGURATIVELY.
Prove to me that the Delta Vega in the move IS IN FACT the same Delta Vega, and you may have a point.
Different Climate, Different purpose/installations, different look, different scenery, different location.
All EVIDENCE indicates a different planet with the same name.
Prove to me that the Delta Vega in the move IS IN FACT the same Delta Vega, and you may have a point.
Different Climate, Different purpose/installations, different look, different scenery, different location.
All EVIDENCE indicates a different planet with the same name.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
The writers said that they MOVED the planet. Not that they liked the name and decided to reuse it. Not that they thought it was a different planet with the same name. They MOVED it.
And I can imagine how it is the same planet with regards to climate. The Lithium Cracking Station was near the equator, NuKrk was near the pole. That part is easy.
If you;re going to the trouble to connect the new movie to the old canon then you play by the rules of that universe. Call it a reboot and you can make Vulcan a hot, steamy water world if you like since it's all new.
It's like the bible thumpers that like to pick and choose from Leviticus. All or none or you're a hypocrite. They should have just rebooted the whole thing and been done with it.
And I can imagine how it is the same planet with regards to climate. The Lithium Cracking Station was near the equator, NuKrk was near the pole. That part is easy.
If you;re going to the trouble to connect the new movie to the old canon then you play by the rules of that universe. Call it a reboot and you can make Vulcan a hot, steamy water world if you like since it's all new.
It's like the bible thumpers that like to pick and choose from Leviticus. All or none or you're a hypocrite. They should have just rebooted the whole thing and been done with it.
I-Am-Zim
Captain
My point is that most of the movie's proponents argue in favor of the writers' intent, however ambiguous it may be, when faced with the problems of the movie. In this particular quote, it is obvious that they moved the planet because the could. When specifically asked if they fudged canon by relocating the planet, Orci specifically stated "True. Yeah we did." That's proof enough for me that it was the writers' intent to move the planet to suit their purposes.
Don't overcomplicate things by misreading an obviously figurative the writers beyond the common-sense in-universe explanation.
What we know:
- A planetary body named Delta Vega, with an automated Lithium Cracking Station, was visited by the Enterprise in WNMHGB. This was fairly close to the galactic rim.
- A planetary body named Delta Vega also exists in the Vulcan system, as established in the movie.
- Both planetary bodies have different climates. (one desert, one mostly glacial)
- Other statements by the writers, and entire articles, indicate the Alternate Reality scenario heavily hinted at within the movie (Uhura: "An Alternate Reality", Spock Prime remembering Kirk's father being alive when Kirk took command of the Enterprise, Spock Prime revealing to Spock about having lied to Kirk by implication of a time paradox etc.)
So, if we use basic logic, we come to realize that the simplest explanation is the most likely one.
So, which is simplest?
- The writers completely lied with their lengthy explanation for how the movie fits with Canon, and Delta Vega was "moved".
- The writers were speaking Figuratively rather than Literally, about "moving" the planet, and there are now 2 planets called Delta Vega.
What do you NOT understand about obvious figurative statements? Do you really think that the writers, myself, and yourself are that STUPID?
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
I don't think of that about myself and I don't know you so I can't answer to that however, based on the work I've seen from these writers, stupid is a bit harsh. Lazy would be closer.
There was no reason that they had to use the name Delta Vegas other than they thought it was "kewl". They chose to play in an extension of an already existing sandbox. They sprinkled in a bit of TOS flavoring to make it look like they were paying homage to what had come before. However, they missed an important ingredient, the soul of what thy were doing. We got a videogame version of Star Trek with bigger explosions and less characterization. They then dressed it up in something vaguely resembling Star Trek and sent it on it's way. And guess what? It was a big hit with the "It's a summer blockbuster. Park your brain at the door and just enjoy it " set.
There was no reason that they had to use the name Delta Vegas other than they thought it was "kewl". They chose to play in an extension of an already existing sandbox. They sprinkled in a bit of TOS flavoring to make it look like they were paying homage to what had come before. However, they missed an important ingredient, the soul of what thy were doing. We got a videogame version of Star Trek with bigger explosions and less characterization. They then dressed it up in something vaguely resembling Star Trek and sent it on it's way. And guess what? It was a big hit with the "It's a summer blockbuster. Park your brain at the door and just enjoy it " set.
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