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Voyager season 3

I enjoy that episode as well. I liked how she left and the "gift" she gave them. I kind of thought the goodbye between her and Janeway was a little overdone. I don't think Lien is that great at expressing strong emotion.
She's much better at that than many of the others in the cast.
Well, I can understand that you like that she "left" but all of os don't like that.

What on earth are you talking about?

"Relativity".
Berman's and Braga's wet dream.
 
"Relativity".
Berman's and Braga's wet dream.
I really don't understand what you're going for with this statement. What about this episode tries to establish that Seven was there from the beginning? Maybe you need to rewatch it.

Seven goes back in time to stop the person who will destroy Voyager. To do so she covers up her implants and tries not to interact with anyone. She doesn't giver her name or anything about herself until she is cornered by Janeway and forced to do so.

What about that tries to make it appear that she was on the show since season 1? I think you're confused.
 
She's much better at that than many of the others in the cast.
Well, I can understand that you like that she "left" but all of os don't like that.

Well I can understand that you're obsesed with her, but all of us aren't like that ;)
 
Thanks, Odonna ... just keep on flattering me ... :biggrin:...
But I can tell you that one of the things I really love about this show is that in spite of the extreme circumstances, the crew kept up a very pleasant morale and in this sense it set me a good example. On other shows like SG Universe or Babylon 5, similar circumstances resulted in a much less acceptable atmosphere (acceptable to me that is) but here the stories did not focus on the depression this caused for the crew but on the brave face they put on their changed circumstances - in no small part thanks to Janeway - and showed that extreme circumstances can forge you into a family and there's a chance you can avoid all the hostility we get on ST Universe for example.
TE, loved your comments, you young whipper snapper! Real Life making it hard to keep up, but wanted to respond.
Yes, there was a camaraderie among Voyager's crew. I liked how they were supportive of each other and always throwing parties!
It would have been interesting if they had done so for, say, five or ten episodes, and then for some reason had been forced to continue their journey. In this way we could have been shown that Janeway did try to avoid the alliance with the Borg but ultimately she had no other choice.
I like your idea for Scorpion, or a lead in to it. I’ll comment more on that ep in my S3 wrap up.
This means from 95% to 105%, right? :D...
So it's good to know that "Robbieboy" is just as loveable as "Tommyboy" although my feelings (whatever they are) have always been there for the character only and not so much for the actor. But I wish him all the best and it would be nice to meet him one day but this'll probably never happen because it's highly unlikely I can go to the US any time.
Of course!
I know what you mean about crushing on the fictional character not the actor. That’s me as well. Some fans do follow actors, but I usually found that it was the character that was intriguing, and not necessarily the actor. Obviously the actor brought something good in themselves into that role, which I appreciate. I might take a look if the actor is in something else, but I find they usually don’t have the same effect.

And I just recently noticed you are in Budapest, Hungary! Very cool. I don’t think I’ve ever exchanged thoughts with anyone from Hungary before. Small world these days.
 
My Favs for Season 3. If I already posted about them before, I won’t give comments again.

Basics Pt2

Sacred Ground

Coda

Macrocosm – This episode is memorable for showing that Janeway could be a bada$$ with the best of them. At least against overgrown viruses... Both TOS and NexGen had an ep where the captain ended up seemingly alone on their ship. (Don't recall if DS9 did...) This version compares very favorably against NexGen’s “Starship Mine”for the captain having to single-handedly save her ship and crew. Homages to Terminator 2’s Sarah Connor and Aliens’ Ripley.

Unity – An introduction to the idea of former Borg drones living disconnected from the Borg Hive. A good Chakotay episode. I love how he slinks backwards into the wall when he first realizes they were Borg and he is a bit freaked out. I had forgotten how angry he was that they had used him to re-initiate their planetary collective connection. After both Seska and Riley manipulated him, and Janeway... well, whatever number she did on him, I can see why he would be a bit wary of women for awhile.

Displaced – I liked this mystery of their crew members being replaced one at a time. I liked that Chakotay and what crew were left were trying to sabotage Voyager, although it didn’t seem to deny them the ship for very long. As usual, aliens were able to work the systems fairly soon after boarding.

Worst Case Scenario – This is a fun episode to get to see a proposed Maquis mutiny, and then see the holodeck scenario play out with different crew members making different choices. I love the senior staff meeting when we see how fast word of the program spread throughout the ship. I’m not so crazy about it once “Seska’s ghost” takes it over. But still the episode is highly re-watchable for me.

Scorpion Pt1&2 – The Scorpion two parter is probably my favorite of the whole series. A cable channel has been airing Voyager re-runs for awhile and I was able to resist watching until I saw Scorpion was on, and it drew me back in. This episode is considered the high point in the series by most TV or Star Trek critics. The creation of Species 7482 as an enemy that can defeat the Borg was brilliant. I love Chakotay and Harry exploring the damaged Borg cube and the strange ship attached to it. Very suspenseful. The captain and commander interactions are excellent. (the look on Chakotay’s face when he walks in to Sickbay and sees the captain has recovered and he knows she’s not happy is priceless!) And who doesn’t love seeing the Borg sucked out into space? Of course, it gave fuel to those who see Janeway as a bit insane; and it also gave us Seven of Nine which changed the series forever.

A few afterthoughts. Not honorable mentions, but just comments:

Q and the Gray – Not a favorite, but it is worth sitting through just to hear Susie Plakston’s dry intonation of,
“What are you doing with that dog? And I don’t mean the puppy.”

Fair Trade – This episode is indicative of Voyager’s problem of always taking itself way too seriously. Episodes may have some light hearted scenes, but the problem of the week is always super serious and dire. This story of Neelix having to make various trades in order to obtain a map of the area of space ahead could have been a light hearted romp as an homage to the Tony Curtis supply officer character in “Operation Petticoat,”instead of the terribly dark, dire thing it is.

Before and After – I was never a great Kes fan. Sorry. She was OK though. But I found it disconcerting when she suddenly had long hair! And I didn’t like it that she dumped Neelix after he saved her and she wanted to have a baby with him. And then in this alternate timeline, she’s married to Tom! Too weird and confusing, especially since very little of what she sees actually happens in the series timeline. But I did like them playing with the idea of the generational crew, and the interconnections between Tom and Harry’s families.

Distant Origin – The idea that a dinosaur species from Earth evolved to achieve space travel eons ago was a fun one. However, to think that they had to travel all the way to the Delta Quadrant before finding a suitable planet hurts the concept if you think about it too much. Would have been better if humans had found them a few dozen light years away in the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. Also, this is the beginning, I think, of Chakotay’s Paleontologist career. He goes back and forth between Paleontology and Anthropology, which while they are both the study of aspects of the distant past, do not have the same focus.

My Thoughts on Seasons 1-3:

I liked the introduction to the characters in the 1st and 2nd Seasons. Eventhough the quality was not always polished, I liked the Maquis-Seska story arc. Season 3 seemed to be a transitioning. What there was of the Janeway/Chakotay romance/flirtation/feelings sort of petered out and went away except in an occasional friendship scene. The idea of the Maquis – Starfleet integration as an ongoing source of challenges just went away. All are one big happy family. There is no doubt that there are some excellent individual episodes, but much of the elements which were meant to give Voyager a unique Star Trek identity were sort of suppressed and it succumbed to the NexGen vanilla problem.
 
I really don't understand what you're going for with this statement. What about this episode tries to establish that Seven was there from the beginning? Maybe you need to rewatch it.

Seven goes back in time to stop the person who will destroy Voyager. To do so she covers up her implants and tries not to interact with anyone. She doesn't giver her name or anything about herself until she is cornered by Janeway and forced to do so.

What about that tries to make it appear that she was on the show since season 1? I think you're confused.
"Been daaazed and confused for so long, it is true!"
Sorry, that was Led Zeppelin! ;)

When I watched that episode many years ago, I got the impressin that this was exactly how Berman and Braga would have had to have it from the start. I guess they had mixed emotions when they watched it, glorious joy over the perfect episode but also a deep sorrow that they didn't think about it when they created the series.

Rewatch it? No, that episode was horrible and have low priority when it comes to rewatching episodes.
 
"Been daaazed and confused for so long, it is true!"
Sorry, that was Led Zeppelin! ;)

When I watched that episode many years ago, I got the impressin that this was exactly how Berman and Braga would have had to have it from the start. I guess they had mixed emotions when they watched it, glorious joy over the perfect episode but also a deep sorrow that they didn't think about it when they created the series.

Rewatch it? No, that episode was horrible and have low priority when it comes to rewatching episodes.
What are you talking about??? You are deeply confused about the plot of the of the episode. I really think you should watch the episode again, you're way off on the plot. (But I know you won't since Kes is not in it ;))

It's actually a pretty good episode, mystery, time travel, explosions, suspense, even some humor. A great episode.
 
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"Revulsion" is a very good episode, but I don't like watching it.
Picking this out of your whole post, lol. There are episodes that fit in that category for me too. Maybe for different reasons. Like I 'get' that Lynx (hi Lynx not meaning to be rude referring to you) but he as a fan may not like certain episodes because of loyalty to a character. So I don't watch Prey because I don't like the sacrifice of 8472.. and The Chute because I hate the darkness and being slightly claustrophobic when they're beating up on Kim or is it Paris, and he's down on the ground being surrounded.. not my favourite.

Mostly watch everything else.
 
My Favs for Season 3. If I already posted about them before, I won’t give comments again.

Basics Pt2

Sacred Ground

Coda

Macrocosm – This episode is memorable for showing that Janeway could be a bada$$ with the best of them. At least against overgrown viruses... Both TOS and NexGen had an ep where the captain ended up seemingly alone on their ship. (Don't recall if DS9 did...) This version compares very favorably against NexGen’s “Starship Mine”for the captain having to single-handedly save her ship and crew. Homages to Terminator 2’s Sarah Connor and Aliens’ Ripley.

Unity – An introduction to the idea of former Borg drones living disconnected from the Borg Hive. A good Chakotay episode. I love how he slinks backwards into the wall when he first realizes they were Borg and he is a bit freaked out. I had forgotten how angry he was that they had used him to re-initiate their planetary collective connection. After both Seska and Riley manipulated him, and Janeway... well, whatever number she did on him, I can see why he would be a bit wary of women for awhile.

Displaced – I liked this mystery of their crew members being replaced one at a time. I liked that Chakotay and what crew were left were trying to sabotage Voyager, although it didn’t seem to deny them the ship for very long. As usual, aliens were able to work the systems fairly soon after boarding.

Worst Case Scenario – This is a fun episode to get to see a proposed Maquis mutiny, and then see the holodeck scenario play out with different crew members making different choices. I love the senior staff meeting when we see how fast word of the program spread throughout the ship. I’m not so crazy about it once “Seska’s ghost” takes it over. But still the episode is highly re-watchable for me.

Scorpion Pt1&2 – The Scorpion two parter is probably my favorite of the whole series. A cable channel has been airing Voyager re-runs for awhile and I was able to resist watching until I saw Scorpion was on, and it drew me back in. This episode is considered the high point in the series by most TV or Star Trek critics. The creation of Species 7482 as an enemy that can defeat the Borg was brilliant. I love Chakotay and Harry exploring the damaged Borg cube and the strange ship attached to it. Very suspenseful. The captain and commander interactions are excellent. (the look on Chakotay’s face when he walks in to Sickbay and sees the captain has recovered and he knows she’s not happy is priceless!) And who doesn’t love seeing the Borg sucked out into space? Of course, it gave fuel to those who see Janeway as a bit insane; and it also gave us Seven of Nine which changed the series forever.

A few afterthoughts. Not honorable mentions, but just comments:

Q and the Gray – Not a favorite, but it is worth sitting through just to hear Susie Plakston’s dry intonation of,
“What are you doing with that dog? And I don’t mean the puppy.”

Fair Trade – This episode is indicative of Voyager’s problem of always taking itself way too seriously. Episodes may have some light hearted scenes, but the problem of the week is always super serious and dire. This story of Neelix having to make various trades in order to obtain a map of the area of space ahead could have been a light hearted romp as an homage to the Tony Curtis supply officer character in “Operation Petticoat,”instead of the terribly dark, dire thing it is.

Before and After – I was never a great Kes fan. Sorry. She was OK though. But I found it disconcerting when she suddenly had long hair! And I didn’t like it that she dumped Neelix after he saved her and she wanted to have a baby with him. And then in this alternate timeline, she’s married to Tom! Too weird and confusing, especially since very little of what she sees actually happens in the series timeline. But I did like them playing with the idea of the generational crew, and the interconnections between Tom and Harry’s families.

Distant Origin – The idea that a dinosaur species from Earth evolved to achieve space travel eons ago was a fun one. However, to think that they had to travel all the way to the Delta Quadrant before finding a suitable planet hurts the concept if you think about it too much. Would have been better if humans had found them a few dozen light years away in the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. Also, this is the beginning, I think, of Chakotay’s Paleontologist career. He goes back and forth between Paleontology and Anthropology, which while they are both the study of aspects of the distant past, do not have the same focus.

My Thoughts on Seasons 1-3:

I liked the introduction to the characters in the 1st and 2nd Seasons. Eventhough the quality was not always polished, I liked the Maquis-Seska story arc. Season 3 seemed to be a transitioning. What there was of the Janeway/Chakotay romance/flirtation/feelings sort of petered out and went away except in an occasional friendship scene. The idea of the Maquis – Starfleet integration as an ongoing source of challenges just went away. All are one big happy family. There is no doubt that there are some excellent individual episodes, but much of the elements which were meant to give Voyager a unique Star Trek identity were sort of suppressed and it succumbed to the NexGen vanilla problem.

There's a reason why DS9 never had an episode with Sisko alone trying to be a badass. It's because he didn't need one to prove to the auduence he was a badass. For two reasons.

First, he fought at Wolf 359. And survived. Not many people can say that.

Second, he is played by Hawk. Seriously, the guy not only looks like a badass, he exudes it with his presence.


Kirk having it done... it was pretty common in that era of tv to have the leads do things like that. Westerns were big at that time, after all.

Picard had one because he was never really seen as an action hero. An excellent captain and diplomat, yes, but not really an action hero. I think they wanted to show the audience he can be an action hero, too.

Janeway got one because they wanted to show the more close minded male audience that she can be an action hero.

Archer didn't really get one because it just doesn't really fit his personality, or the mission they were going for. He did basically become one during the Xindi arc, but that was completely done out of an attempt to get out of the cancel zone, which it bought the series one more season.
 
Ugh... Macrocosm was awful! I understand why people would like the "badass" aspect of it, but a.) it was painful how much they copied Ripley from Alien/Aliens for this, and, more importantly, b.) the premise that a literal virus turned gigantic and started flying around stinging people was patently ridiculous. Part of the reason I like Trek is that the universe *usually* tries to make some sense and tries to extrapolate from known (real) science - with some notable, but acceptable exceptions. To me, the worst episodes are all the ones that throw even basic science out the window and pattern themselves more off X-Files than anything plausible.
 
My Favs for Season 3. If I already posted about them before, I won’t give comments again.

Basics Pt2

Sacred Ground

Coda

Macrocosm – This episode is memorable for showing that Janeway could be a bada$$ with the best of them. At least against overgrown viruses... Both TOS and NexGen had an ep where the captain ended up seemingly alone on their ship. (Don't recall if DS9 did...) This version compares very favorably against NexGen’s “Starship Mine”for the captain having to single-handedly save her ship and crew. Homages to Terminator 2’s Sarah Connor and Aliens’ Ripley.

Unity – An introduction to the idea of former Borg drones living disconnected from the Borg Hive. A good Chakotay episode. I love how he slinks backwards into the wall when he first realizes they were Borg and he is a bit freaked out. I had forgotten how angry he was that they had used him to re-initiate their planetary collective connection. After both Seska and Riley manipulated him, and Janeway... well, whatever number she did on him, I can see why he would be a bit wary of women for awhile.

Displaced – I liked this mystery of their crew members being replaced one at a time. I liked that Chakotay and what crew were left were trying to sabotage Voyager, although it didn’t seem to deny them the ship for very long. As usual, aliens were able to work the systems fairly soon after boarding.

Worst Case Scenario – This is a fun episode to get to see a proposed Maquis mutiny, and then see the holodeck scenario play out with different crew members making different choices. I love the senior staff meeting when we see how fast word of the program spread throughout the ship. I’m not so crazy about it once “Seska’s ghost” takes it over. But still the episode is highly re-watchable for me.

Scorpion Pt1&2 – The Scorpion two parter is probably my favorite of the whole series. A cable channel has been airing Voyager re-runs for awhile and I was able to resist watching until I saw Scorpion was on, and it drew me back in. This episode is considered the high point in the series by most TV or Star Trek critics. The creation of Species 7482 as an enemy that can defeat the Borg was brilliant. I love Chakotay and Harry exploring the damaged Borg cube and the strange ship attached to it. Very suspenseful. The captain and commander interactions are excellent. (the look on Chakotay’s face when he walks in to Sickbay and sees the captain has recovered and he knows she’s not happy is priceless!) And who doesn’t love seeing the Borg sucked out into space? Of course, it gave fuel to those who see Janeway as a bit insane; and it also gave us Seven of Nine which changed the series forever.

A few afterthoughts. Not honorable mentions, but just comments:

Q and the Gray – Not a favorite, but it is worth sitting through just to hear Susie Plakston’s dry intonation of,
“What are you doing with that dog? And I don’t mean the puppy.”

Fair Trade – This episode is indicative of Voyager’s problem of always taking itself way too seriously. Episodes may have some light hearted scenes, but the problem of the week is always super serious and dire. This story of Neelix having to make various trades in order to obtain a map of the area of space ahead could have been a light hearted romp as an homage to the Tony Curtis supply officer character in “Operation Petticoat,”instead of the terribly dark, dire thing it is.

Before and After – I was never a great Kes fan. Sorry. She was OK though. But I found it disconcerting when she suddenly had long hair! And I didn’t like it that she dumped Neelix after he saved her and she wanted to have a baby with him. And then in this alternate timeline, she’s married to Tom! Too weird and confusing, especially since very little of what she sees actually happens in the series timeline. But I did like them playing with the idea of the generational crew, and the interconnections between Tom and Harry’s families.

Distant Origin – The idea that a dinosaur species from Earth evolved to achieve space travel eons ago was a fun one. However, to think that they had to travel all the way to the Delta Quadrant before finding a suitable planet hurts the concept if you think about it too much. Would have been better if humans had found them a few dozen light years away in the Alpha or Beta Quadrants. Also, this is the beginning, I think, of Chakotay’s Paleontologist career. He goes back and forth between Paleontology and Anthropology, which while they are both the study of aspects of the distant past, do not have the same focus.

My Thoughts on Seasons 1-3:

I liked the introduction to the characters in the 1st and 2nd Seasons. Eventhough the quality was not always polished, I liked the Maquis-Seska story arc. Season 3 seemed to be a transitioning. What there was of the Janeway/Chakotay romance/flirtation/feelings sort of petered out and went away except in an occasional friendship scene. The idea of the Maquis – Starfleet integration as an ongoing source of challenges just went away. All are one big happy family. There is no doubt that there are some excellent individual episodes, but much of the elements which were meant to give Voyager a unique Star Trek identity were sort of suppressed and it succumbed to the NexGen vanilla problem.
Thanks for your comments Odonna! I agree with some of your favorites, Macrocosm and Displaced being exceptions and I still like both of those, just not as much as some others. I love Distant Origin (it's vying for top spot with Scorpion as my fav s3 ep), but I agree with you about the central plot point (the travel issue from the A to the D-quadrant). It kind of brings about a huge question regarding their evolution and its believability (is that a word?). If the viewer can somehow overlook that weak spot, then the ep becomes infinitely stronger imho.

And, on the note of TNG I willl possibly be watching seasons 2-7 of that one in the future, and probably DS9 as well, since I haven't seen any of it. I stopped watching TNG after s1 back when it aired because I found it kind of vanilla and bland, as you describe. I have since learned that the later seasons are supposed to be best (?), so I'll prob give it another chance.

Ugh... Macrocosm was awful! I understand why people would like the "badass" aspect of it, but a.) it was painful how much they copied Ripley from Alien/Aliens for this, and, more importantly, b.) the premise that a literal virus turned gigantic and started flying around stinging people was patently ridiculous. Part of the reason I like Trek is that the universe *usually* tries to make some sense and tries to extrapolate from known (real) science - with some notable, but acceptable exceptions. To me, the worst episodes are all the ones that throw even basic science out the window and pattern themselves more off X-Files than anything plausible.

I agree in a sense, although I don't personally consider this ep awful. I felt they went too far with the homage though...it left the episode with very little defining characteristics of its own imo. Alien is my all-time favorite movie (Aliens less so) so I appreciate the tribute of sorts, but other than that Macrocosm I didn't find all that memorable. It seemed kind of generic actually.
 
Yes it does somewhat remind me of Genesis. Side note...Genesis is my very first memory of any Star Trek.
Eeek! I was like 8 when it aired. It scared the crap out of me.


Hmmmm... I really must watch TNG it seems.
Each series is great in their own right, but I would recommend watching them separately.

This is how I would watch(if I had never seen the shows before). I would watch a few random episodes from any season. Maybe ones that are popular, and when you begin to grow attached to the characters, and you feel that "craving" to see more stories with them, then go back from the beginning.

And then those random episodes you already saw will pop up as little bonuses, and you'll see them in a new light.

I would recommend this for getting into any older show, or maybe any show period.
 
Ugh, I hated "Genesis" and won't watch it again. I have no idea why it reminds you all of Macrocosm because I don't have much memory of it except of all the crew devolving into monsters. In fact it reminds me more of Threshold in that regard.
 
Ugh, I hated "Genesis" and won't watch it again. I have no idea why it reminds you all of Macrocosm because I don't have much memory of it except of all the crew devolving into monsters. In fact it reminds me more of Threshold in that regard.
I enjoy Genesis. I think that's one of those episodes that many people don't like but I enjoy...like go along home from DS9. For me Macrocosm reminds me of Genesis the way Janeway and Neelix both come back and nobody is around, it's dark and they don't know where anyone is. Janeway ends up fighting off the macro viruses the same way Picard was fighting off "worf".
 
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