Unseen TOS....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First off, let me apologize to Michael. Do what you must.

    “And "[Rube]? Who talks like that?"

    Hell, I thought you’d have figured that one out. I do:
    The question is, who is arrogant enough to tell someone else how they need to use the board software to make them happy? And to continue this after the mod said to drop it?

    “The use of one archaic word reminded me of that quote about the other.”

    “Vocabulary,com says
    Since we’re all friends here I thought it was probably fine to use it jokingly, though I failed to take account of the fact you might mistake rural slang for arcanum.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
  2. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of us was joking, anyway, and even included an emoticon to indicate such. But, since @Michael said to drop it, it's dropped.
     
  3. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I responded to your post before I read @Michael's admonishment. I would've gone back and edited it out after reading that but it had been quoted by someone else so it will be there until that person's post is also edited.

    And I definitely could have worded the original thing that pissed you off better.

    But liked I said, dropped.
     
  4. Michael

    Michael Good Bad Influence Moderator

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    @aridas sofia, @BK613 — I'm going to let that slide one more time, because I really don't want to hand out warnings because of something as petty as this. Drop the issue now or I will be forced to react less charitably. I know you can do it, guys.
     
  5. Nerroth

    Nerroth Commodore Commodore

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    Another brief pass-by, if it isn't too much trouble:

    The proposed Klingon hull has certain design features reminiscent of Klingon ships over in the Star Fleet Universe - and, indeed, of hulls built with Klingon design influences by other empires in that setting.

    For example: in the "Middle Years" era that roughly corresponds with the "five-year mission" dramatized for tri-video, the Klingons used the smaller F5 frigate and E4 escort to complement the larger D6 and D7. Notably, these ships placed their disruptor bolt emitters on the wings, as the engines were too small to install them on the nacelle caps. Although, these ships retain the "bulb" prow; even the much later (and much smaller) G1 gunboats did their best to retain this design feature. (The way the SFU tells it, Klingon ships are inspired by a carnivorous marine reptile, to be found in the oceans of the Klingon home world.)

    Of course, the Romulans acquired several Klingon hulls and converted them into the Kestrel-series. Klingon design influences are evident in the subsequent Hawk-series: ships such as the SparrowHawk light cruiser, SkyHawk destroyer, and SeaHawk frigate reflect this - and have booms which are perhaps closer to those shown above. Although there is a "Mongoose" variant of the SparrowHawk with a very different design layout.

    Beyond this, there is a range of "fish ships" fielded by the WYN Navy - a "pocket empire" at the crossroads of the Klingon, Kzinti, and Lyran empires. These ships, such as the Orca war cruiser, the Mako destroyer, and the Barracuda frigate, use Klingon-type engines, but have other design features inspired by the Orion Pirates - since hey were built in the same fleet yard used to construct ships for the Orion Cluster Cartel.

    Perhaps the most divergent of these Klingon-influenced ships in the Alpha Octant are in the Vudar fleet. The reptilian Vudar are a Klingon subject species, allowed to operate their own ships due to their high radiation tolerance -since they evolved in an area of high radiation in which the Klingons themselves struggle to operate). As seen with their war frigate, war destroyer, and war cruiser, their engines also follow Klingon design templates.

    While in the more distant Omega Octant, the Federal Republic of Aurora - comprised of star systems transplanted from the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the ISC, and elsewhere - eventually developed a "hybrid" destroyer design. While not on Shapeways as of yet, this ship was reverse-engineered from a leader variant F5 hull; the resulting ship has the engines of an F5 and a modified F5 boom, connected to a secondary hull inspired by the Federation police cutter (which the Aurorans had previously modified for use as their frigate).

    -----

    In short, I would sooner see the proposed Klingon ship as an early example of a "post-treaty" Romulan hull - one built to largely Klingon design schematics, yet with certain incremental changes (such as in the boom) leaning more towards more "refined" Romulan designs later in the timeline.

    Personally - and one can take or leave this at their discretion - I prefer Klingon ships built for Klingon service to maintain more traces of the "manta ray" D6/D7 design, a least in terms of the shape of the forward boom.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    All of this is based on after-the-fact speculation rather than what Matt Jefferies might have been thinking in 1967 before everything that came after existed.
     
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  7. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the one hand, we could look to the D-7 and Leif Ericson designs - and that scout ship that may or may not have originally gone with the Leif - and conclude that “head at the end of a long boom” thing was a 1968 development and thus not in his head earlier. But I don’t think that is the case. Jefferies seems influenced by, among other things, the work of Von Braun collaborator Krafft Ehricke. And Ehricke had designed several proposed vessels to be built up from spent fuel ranks and that had that distinctive, “head at the end of a long boom” look. And like with Jefferies’ thinking regarding ships and their power pods, Ehricke situates this inhabited “head” far, far away from the radioactive, nuclear-powered stern. I believe this Ehricke-inspired logic was fundamental to Jefferies’ spacecraft logic. So, not only do I suspect you are unnecessarily distancing your design from that look. I suspect it’s not quite in line with what we know about Jefferies’ thinking. Not the later D-7 or Leif Ericson, mind you. But the earlier Krafft Ehricke.

    https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/images/spaceageposter/observatorySatellite1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2023
  8. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Admiral Premium Member

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    Looks like the Botany Bay took some queues from that one as well.
     
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  9. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Certainly the XCV-330 ringship is influenced by Ehricke.
     
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  10. Henoch

    Henoch Glowing Globe Premium Member

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    The Botany Bay is an earlier design of the Leif Ericson. Looks like the same design team. ;)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Leif Ericson, Botany Bay and DS9's Defiant share many of the same design features (forward sail for the Botany Bay and the body+engine fairings/pods for the Defiant). But I'm not really seeing that connection between the Klingon Battlecruiser and the Leif Ericson.

    I find that the Klingon Battlecruiser looks more like an angular version of the 1950s War of the Worlds Martian ship with a bulbous module stuck to the front of the thin protrusion and rectangular nacelles on the wing tips. You could take the War of the Worlds ship, remove the antenna, stick the battlecruiser neck on it and nacelles and it would work as a streamlined version, IMHO.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One thing I've noticed looking over MJ's sketches is that he never discarded ideas entirely, but instead always went back and reused earlier concepts that he liked, including elements that eventually found their way into the Klingon Battlecruiser. Likewise the Botany Bay and Leif Ericson and its scout craft also had their origins in the 200+ early concept sketches done when brainstorming the Enterprise design. So I think if we are trying to imagine what MJ might have come up with early in the first season, then we should remember that he already had a huge collection of unused ideas to draw from.
     
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  13. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7f/3b/94/7f3b94128808ada4966f63b8aeff4c96.jpg

    http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb...ass_engineering_drawing_by_Matt_Jefferies.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e7/29/de/e729de87ec1184f5255a0b9e5059de5f--class-ring-star-trek-ships.jpg

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WLeqZ2U0...lli1M6TQCLcBGAs/s1600/Moebius-NEV%5B12%5D.jpg

    Both the Leif and D-7 have a long boom neck that links them to the Krafft Ehricke and Jefferies ringship designs. The Leif Ericson further has downswept wings similar to the D-7 — with the addition of angled upper stabilizers (which Jefferies played with for the D-7 as well). Finally, it has the added structure amidship aft that becomes the impulse drive on the D-7.

    https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/gunslingerone/klingondrawing.jpg

    Are they different? Of course. It is close enough however, that I used the Leif Ericson design as the basis for an earlier Klingon ship design.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/d3/73/ecd373ab3141fc1620ba6e6b367abb6f.jpg

    And I used that wide, tough neck on a number of my Kilingon designs. Here are just a few:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/a6/b1/d5a6b173f244bf0386ed08115dc40122.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/35/6e/53356e5fcefe0dbd211b3ba2f31b7eeb.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/3b/14/9e3b146cabbff288da0225993ddadb47.jpg
     
  14. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I could almost feel ganged up on.
     
  15. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hey if I didn’t like and greatly respect you and your work, I wouldn’t waste my time.
     
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  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This looks really really good. I like the sweeping of the wings, as well as the very grill like extensions on top. Definitely feels in line with real model work, as well as close to what would become the Klingon battlecruiser.
     
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  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I am going to do some further tweaking although we’re not talking anything radical. There are just a few small things I’m not totally happy with.

    There is also another concept nagging at the back of my mind I’d like to explore.
     
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  18. trynda1701

    trynda1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Not at all. You're doing amazing work.
    :cool::cool::cool::cool:

    This design has little design cues that suggest the later D-7, but fit the idea of something that could have done in the studio workshop, like your earlier concepts, with a bit more money. Not like later getting the actual tooling masters for the later AMT kits as filming models based on Matt's D-7 design!

    Now, THIS, I want to see! :) :) :) :)
     
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  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm going to do this again from scratch but with tweaks built in rather than try to correct the existing model. Aspects of it bug me when viewed from certain angles.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2023
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  20. publiusr

    publiusr Admiral Admiral

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    Call that one a cutter. Or a big shuttle.

    D-17?