I like it.
Yeah, me too.
Same here, although I still wish they'd retained the Star Trek V bridge. the one in VI was too drab and military looking.
TUC: Overrated?
- Thread starter Simon Goldfarb
- Start date
Same here, although I still wish they'd retained the Star Trek V bridge. the one in VI was too drab and military looking.
In TOS Spock used his 'spooky' mind powers to trick a guard on Eminar 7, the Chief's girlfriend in 'The Omega Glory'. He also tried it on the Kelvans and (presumably) wiped out some unpleasant memories for Kirk in 'Requiem for Methuselah'..
In ST09 he forced a mind meld on an unconscious guard and in STID on Pike and I think he tried to kill Khan with them or disable him.
The thing that made his actions on Valeris seemed worse was that she was small and tried to resist and Nimoy looked angry. Is a forced mind meld worse than the two murders Valeris committed and the other murders and imprisonment of Kirk and McCoy that she was involved in?
I like it.
Yeah, me too.
Same here, although I still wish they'd retained the Star Trek V bridge. the one in VI was too drab and military looking.
Or better still, the one at the end of TVH. I loved that bridge, it was almost a bit like the new JJ one but toned down slightly.
I like it.
Yeah, me too.
Same here, although I still wish they'd retained the Star Trek V bridge. the one in VI was too drab and military looking.
If the TUC bridge is drab, what is the TMP bridge?
I agree - I always found Valeris rather insufferable about her own role in all of it and since he didn't hurt her, the scene didn't bother me. The other option was to let an assassination go down that would have resulted in a war and hard to tell what all else. Spock was also after very specific information that he retrieved and then afterward let her go. It was justified, IMO.
I think Spock probably felt that not only did she betray the Federation, but also the crew and Kirk personally (I seem to recall that she supplied the recording at Kirk's trial), which was probably why he came off as angry.
Sometimes I think F. King Daniel's pointing at me. In this instance, he's not wrong
I never had a problem with the TUC bridge either, that picture looks great. I don't think it looks particularly 'military' - it's a million miles away from Klingon bridges for example.
I love the dialog in TUC. It's also the best looking ST movie ever made. The set designs, the pacing, the overall feel of the movie are all fantastic.
I always liked the maturity that Meyer brought to ST characters. I like how the Klignons aren't portrayed as meatheads.
I always liked the maturity that Meyer brought to ST characters. I like how the Klignons aren't portrayed as meatheads.
I never had a problem with the TUC bridge either, that picture looks great. I don't think it looks particularly 'military' - it's a million miles away from Klingon bridges for example.
Klingon bridges are a bit on the extreme side to begin with. But modern day military bridges tend to look cold, hard, and efficient, and I'd say the TMP bridge achieves that effect closer (albeit unintentionally, probably, since it predates Meyers). Silver and gray tend to be US military colors through and through.
The TUC bridge, on the other hand, looks like something closer to a kind of NASA-inspired mission command/ground control, minus the captain's chair. The plethora of screens that are always on but surround the whole well-lit room, complete with the two bridge stations facing forward towards the giant screen, just drives that home to me. While NASA isn't purely military (though the military has a hand with it), NASA's emphasis was always on exploration over military use, and as such I think it's a fine aesthetic for a Trek bridge to evoke.
It was all right but I have to admit the older I've gotten the less I like it. There are just too many moments where it seems like the cast is clearly acting like they are making a movie, and not some genuine events that were happening that we just happen to be watching on film.
There were too many scenes where it felt like the writers were "Let's be sure everyone has a line to say in this scene...First Chekov speaks, then Spock, then Uhura, then Scotty, then Bones, then Spock again.....etc." And that scene at the very end where they'e all standing heroically in front of the crowd, like someone said to me once "It was like they were all posing for a picture that noone took."
Yes it was a good-bye and a decent one at that, but it just felt like there were too many points where the writers were beating you over the head that you understood it was a good-bye first and an entertaining story second.
There were too many scenes where it felt like the writers were "Let's be sure everyone has a line to say in this scene...First Chekov speaks, then Spock, then Uhura, then Scotty, then Bones, then Spock again.....etc." And that scene at the very end where they'e all standing heroically in front of the crowd, like someone said to me once "It was like they were all posing for a picture that noone took."
Yes it was a good-bye and a decent one at that, but it just felt like there were too many points where the writers were beating you over the head that you understood it was a good-bye first and an entertaining story second.
That's a good point. I agree.I never had a problem with the TUC bridge either, that picture looks great. I don't think it looks particularly 'military' - it's a million miles away from Klingon bridges for example.If the TUC bridge is drab, what is the TMP bridge?
[~snip]
Klingon bridges are a bit on the extreme side to begin with. But modern day military bridges tend to look cold, hard, and efficient, and I'd say the TMP bridge achieves that effect closer (albeit unintentionally, probably, since it predates Meyers). Silver and gray tend to be US military colors through and through.
The TUC bridge, on the other hand, looks like something closer to a kind of NASA-inspired mission command/ground control, minus the captain's chair. The plethora of screens that are always on but surround the whole well-lit room, complete with the two bridge stations facing forward towards the giant screen, just drives that home to me. While NASA isn't purely military (though the military has a hand with it), NASA's emphasis was always on exploration over military use, and as such I think it's a fine aesthetic for a Trek bridge to evoke.
Questions: Is the TUC bridge set larger than the TMP/TFF set? It looks larger. Was it a redress of the Excelsior bridge?
Yes, I found that moment rather cheesy.
I like TUC, but definitely feel it is overrated. It has a sloppy script. It was done fast and cheap and it really shows. It has a very slow and ponderous middle act. And Nick Meyer, who was brilliant with Trek II and witty in Trek IV was just arrogant and self-indulgent in this one. The Shakespeare and "literary relevance" was done with no subtlety and came off as cheesy and pretentious.
There are gigantic logic holes in the plot. How can the Enterprise sensors not detect a torpedo launch point from a cloaked bird of prey? How can internal scanners not locate something as unique as Klingon blood? How can forensics not quickly prove that the Enterprise did not fire torpedoes (heck, modern forensics could probably figure it out..forget about 23rd century)? How do the Klingons not recognize a veridium patch on a high profile criminal accused of murdering their high chancellor? How do the Klingon boarder sensors not differentiate between a Klingon freighter and a "Federation Battlecruiser"... Especially in this time of high tensions (but the universal translator will be recognized??)? The Transporter records wouldn't show the two assassins had beamed from that ship? The whole ruse by Kirk and Spock to lure Valeris into sickbay is nonsensical.
So yeah there's tons of issues that put this as a middle-tier Trek film. But there's some good stuff too. The assassination scene is fantastic. The battle at the end is tense and well-choreographed. The dialogue on Rura Penthe in the prison between Kirk and McCoy is classic. The opening scene with the Praxis explosion and the wave hitting the Excelsior is electrifying. I liked making Valeris the prime assassin and not having it be all the Klingons responsibility.
Overall, it's a fairly enjoyable film, but not nearly the classic that some make it out to be. There's just too many sloppy elements to the script and too many plot holes and non-sensical elements to be considered top-tier.
There are gigantic logic holes in the plot. How can the Enterprise sensors not detect a torpedo launch point from a cloaked bird of prey? How can internal scanners not locate something as unique as Klingon blood? How can forensics not quickly prove that the Enterprise did not fire torpedoes (heck, modern forensics could probably figure it out..forget about 23rd century)? How do the Klingons not recognize a veridium patch on a high profile criminal accused of murdering their high chancellor? How do the Klingon boarder sensors not differentiate between a Klingon freighter and a "Federation Battlecruiser"... Especially in this time of high tensions (but the universal translator will be recognized??)? The Transporter records wouldn't show the two assassins had beamed from that ship? The whole ruse by Kirk and Spock to lure Valeris into sickbay is nonsensical.
So yeah there's tons of issues that put this as a middle-tier Trek film. But there's some good stuff too. The assassination scene is fantastic. The battle at the end is tense and well-choreographed. The dialogue on Rura Penthe in the prison between Kirk and McCoy is classic. The opening scene with the Praxis explosion and the wave hitting the Excelsior is electrifying. I liked making Valeris the prime assassin and not having it be all the Klingons responsibility.
Overall, it's a fairly enjoyable film, but not nearly the classic that some make it out to be. There's just too many sloppy elements to the script and too many plot holes and non-sensical elements to be considered top-tier.
I believe it was in fact the TFF set, though altered or lit differently.
It is what it is, it was a picture for the audience, as these characters were being sent off after 25 years on screen. That part gets a pass from me, its essentially breaking the 4th wall but it works.
As one of those hundreds, it's really not any different than the applause they get at the end of TVH.
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