TUC: Overrated?

[Ssosmcin]

Certainly not my favorite, but I like it a lot more now that the theatrical version is on Blu-Ray. Over the years, the home video cut grated on me. None of the stuff added in by Meyer did anything for me (the Scooby Doo reveal made no sense and the other scenes just did't add much). On one hand, it's got a really good story idea. On the other, it's filled with so many gags, it blunts the bite. It tries to be dark and lightweight at the same time. Chekov is an idiot, Shatner plays more "himself" than "Kirk," and the traitor is too obvious (the one new main crew member). However, some scenes are fantastic; Kirk's "let them die" is wonderful and the final battle is beautifully cut and scored. After the laugh riots of the previous two films, I wanted a return to the more serious feel of the first three, which had great moments of character humor. But nope, Star Trek was a sci-fi comedy/drama. Maybe Paramount felt nobody could take the retirement aged characters seriously...

Overrated? Maybe. I prefer TWOK, TSFS and even TMP to TUC. But, it's better than TVH.

 

[dub]

It seems to me the score is underrated. I found it refreshing. The perfect combination of dark, mysterious and suspenseful. And the heroic theme is also nice. To me, the orchestra felt as large as the film felt. I don't think any Trek score could ever beat TMP in its absolute genius, but what Eidelman did with the score for TUC made the orchestra sound as if it was the largest of any Trek score. I can't articulate why it feels that way to me, it just does. And the dude was 26 when he composed that music!

I don't think it's the best Trek film, but TUC certainly felt big and it looked beautiful. It had scale and visual quality unlike any Trek film before. Duh...it was the latest film at that point, so of course it should have the best quality. But see, I don't think any of the TNG films ever came close to matching the grandeur, scale and visual beauty and quality of TUC. Having said that, I rank FC higher than TUC. So...explain that one!

 

[Khan 2.0]

Shatner plays more "himself" than "Kirk,"

Ive always thought Shatner went back to playing a mature JTK in TUC after playing himself in TFF. (before going back to playing Captain Shatner in Generations)

 

[eyeresist]

I think TUC is overrated. It has a compelling first act, then things get a bit silly on the mining planet. Then .... I had to read a plot summary to see what happens after they leave Rura Penthe - none of it rings a bell, or seems very interesting.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I don't think it's the best Trek film, but TUC certainly felt big and it looked beautiful. It had scale and visual quality unlike any Trek film before. Duh...it was the latest film at that point, so of course it should have the best quality. But see, I don't think any of the TNG films ever came close to matching the grandeur, scale and visual beauty and quality of TUC. Having said that, I rank FC higher than TUC. So...explain that one!

agreed. it was a return to the epicness of Trek III in terms of scale and FX quality (which were light years ahead of Vs)

Occasionally you read comments of how 'cheap' TUC looked due to reusing a few TNG sets etc but that's never bothered me in the slightest (I don't think I even noticed at the time)

i can clearly recall seeing it in the cinema - the Praxis destruction was huge and like nothing anyone had seen (and was later 'stolen' by StarGate and the Star Wars SE), the spaceships felt really huge this time. the new shot of going up to spacedock was huge and epic (not just reusing FX from prev movie, there was none of that for this movie! even stuff they could've used again like various warp shots and the BOP etc were all new), the blood and the shapeshifter was T2 quality (VI mustve been the first ILM movie to benefit from the groundbreaking T2), Rura Penthe was totally believable esp with the Alaska shots (felt even grander than Hoth or Delta Vega), the Klingon Court seemed huge despite probably being filmed on a small set, and that outside matte shot on Khitomer totally sold it as an epic alien world. and of course the epic showdown battle was just amazing (so good they reused the BOP destruction for VII as if no one would notice!!)

 

[CoveTom]

I think that's a bit nitpicky IMO, surely it's not a deal breaker for the movie, it was Kirk's last outing in the big E, I think the scene is actually quite poignant, along with that shot of a proud scotty folding his arms watching the engines light up for one last time. It gives me a lump in my throat.

I would agree, except every time I see that scene, it bothers me that Scotty is standing in the Enterprise-D's engine room. It knocks me right out of the scene.

I understand that they had to save money on that film, and that TNG's standing sets were an easy way to do that. And I can forgive re-use of the corridors, and the crew quarters, and so forth. But engineering is such a distinct set, and it was so obviously the TNG set, that I think it's distracting.

 

[Smellmet]

It never bothered me, it's a very brief scene

 

[CoveTom]

But the warp core from TNG is so prominent that it's distracting. And they go back to the engineering set at other points in the film too.

 

[Cyke101]

TNG sets aside, the atmosphere, tone, and direction of the movie are so vastly different from TFF that I still have trouble believing that they were made with roughly the same budget, despite the numbers.

Speaking of TFF, I don't mind that they used TNG corridors, but the movie just had the bad fortune of using early season sets, which were pretty bland and classic 80s' mute beige.

 

[RoJoHen]

But the warp core from TNG is so prominent that it's distracting. And they go back to the engineering set at other points in the film too.

I don't find any more distracting that VOY's Sickbay being used in "First Contact."

They're all Starfleet ships. They're bound to have similar designs elements.

 

[Cyke101]

But the warp core from TNG is so prominent that it's distracting. And they go back to the engineering set at other points in the film too.

I don't find any more distracting that VOY's Sickbay being used in "First Contact."

They're all Starfleet ships. They're bound to have similar designs elements.

Well, Voy and FC are in the same design period, so that's to be expected. But a 24th century engine room in a 23rd century design is altogether different. It'd be like seeing an Apple store as a telegraph or the post office in a 1930s Frank Capra movie. They're both ways to communicate long distance yes, but using technologies of vastly different eras.

 

[RoJoHen]

But the warp core from TNG is so prominent that it's distracting. And they go back to the engineering set at other points in the film too.

I don't find any more distracting that VOY's Sickbay being used in "First Contact."

They're all Starfleet ships. They're bound to have similar designs elements.

Well, Voy and FC are in the same design period, so that's to be expected. But a 24th century engine room in a 23rd century design is altogether different. It'd be like seeing an Apple store as a telegraph or the post office in a 1930s Frank Capra movie. They're both ways to communicate long distance yes, but using technologies of vastly different eras.

I don't really think you can make that argument here. I mean, the warp core we see in the TOS movies is basically the same style of warp core we see on Voyager. The technology really doesn't seem to have changed much in 80+ years.

And in TUC vs. TNG, we're not even talking about technology. We're just talking about a room. Somehow I doubt that walls and windows are going to evolve that much.

 

[Smellmet]

Exactly. These things are a million miles away from deal breakers for me. The things that really matter - they got pretty much spot on. Ive barely noticed the dressed up TNG sets down the years of watching it.

 

[BillJ]

Speaking of TFF, I don't mind that they used TNG corridors, but the movie just had the bad fortune of using early season sets, which were pretty bland and classic 80s' mute beige.

I found it odd that they didn't paint or create new doors? Beyond that, it was weird that they used the TMP fanfare that was now at the beginning of TNG.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It also contains my least favorite scene in all of the TOS films: Kirk ordering impulse drive in spacedock. It shows that he didn't learn his lesson from TWOK, which was all about him learning life lessons. It is even worse now than when it was made in '91, because it now reminds me of Captain Schettino's foolishness and the Costa Concordia disaster every time I see it.

I think that's a bit nitpicky IMO, surely it's not a deal breaker for the movie, it was Kirk's last outing in the big E, I think the scene is actually quite poignant, along with that shot of a proud scotty folding his arms watching the engines light up for one last time. It gives me a lump in my throat.

Amazing how people see things the opposite to yourself.

I personally found it kind of amusing with that particular scene. Scotty is seen folding his arms probably satisfied with his engines. And, you can also see an Engineering officer off to the side looking at Scotty like, 'What is he smiling about?'

Some nitpicky things for me was:
*The obvious effect when Spock stands in front of the ENT viewscreen with the paused torpedo hit on Gorkon's ship.

*The obvious effect when one Kirk points to the 'other' Kirk. (He points upward, not directly to the other individual...and there is a clear line where both shots were spliced together).

*The alien bully (and other aliens) at Rua Penthe was kinda low budget looking...including Martia in some of her forms.

*Valeris as a culprit was kinda in-your-face.

*Cliff Eidelman's theme was interesting, but the full soundtrack isn't as strong as TMP or Horner's pieces. (I do like Cliff Eidelman's theme for "Meteor Man").

 

[malchya]

Tough one, actually. I remember coming out of the theater with the oddest mix of extreme satisfacition and deep disappointment. Meyers' take on the Enterprise jarred in a couple of spots, I admit, though not the places others have spotlighted. I found the galley and crew's quarters to be at odds with the oft stated aesthetic of her design. Where did the replicators go? Kirk's quarters were amazingly small (perhaps his Space Cabin as opposed to the actual Captain's Quarters?) and claustrophobic. My biggest issues, though, were never with the sets or the uniforms; they were with the feel and atmosphere. Spock's mind rape of Valeris has always left a bad taste in my mind. The Federation, to me, was given a disturbing totalitarian and militaristic feel that clashed badly with previous incarnations. The "feel" was wrong to me, almost dystopian at times.

But the deal breaker for me was with the way the characters were butchered. Uhura not being able to speak Klingon nor use a translation program on the computer, forced to rely on hardcopy books and Mr. Scott's quick eye to find the right (almost) translation? Really? The ship's compassionate and humane doctor replacing an ordanance tech while the obvious casualties mount in sick bay? Mr. Chekov, one time cheif of Security, not knowing that an alarm would sound when a weapon was discharged onboard? And do we really believe that the torpedoes were never, ever fitted with any kind of sensing or tracking equipment prior to Spock's "ionized gas" attack? Or that the sensors of the ship herself, capable of detecting a tiny patch on Kirk's uniform jacket (and aren't we glad he wasn't issued prison clothing?) a sector away, couldn't have tracked a plasma trail at less than 5,000 yards?

In closing, this has the second least rewatch potential for me, honestly. And that is despite the scene where the Excelsior encounters the wavefront being one of my three favorite of all Trek scenes! The only film, original or TNG, that bothers me more is TVH.

 

[MacLeod]

Speaking of TFF, I don't mind that they used TNG corridors, but the movie just had the bad fortune of using early season sets, which were pretty bland and classic 80s' mute beige.

I found it odd that they didn't paint or create new doors? Beyond that, it was weird that they used the TMP fanfare that was now at the beginning of TNG.

I don't find it weird that Jerry Goldmsith re-used themes from earlier ST films in his later films, he used the Klingon Battle theme in FC, you could argue what is weirder is that TNG's theme was a mixture of the TMP and TOS theme. But saying that have you heard the alternative opening

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NvulPF-IGc[/yt]

 

[Smellmet]

I'll definitely concede the Uhura translation scene - it didn't bother me at the time, as I was a lot younger but it's probably the film's weakest scene, and it's worst attempt at humor. Still no deal breaker for me, just a bit of a 'roll the eyes' moment. I'd much rather have had a scene where the Enterprise is sneaking into Klingon territory and trying to avoid other ships in another, more dramatic fashion. They are illegally sneaking behind enemy lines let's not forget, that wasn't the time for the film to be joking around.

Also I guess you either buy into Meyer's interpretation or you dislike it, I've always thought it lends an air of credibility to the proceedings, and especially in this movie. I think the militaristic overtones suit not only the political premise of the story, but the Federation in general, yes there is the peaceful exploring element, but it's naive to expect them not to behave like a military organisation when there are so many known and unknown threats out there.

I'm yet to read anyone on this thread seriously tear strips of this movie like TFF and NEM, most of the criticisms seem to be minor quibbles that you could level at just about any movie. This movie just had a more serious dramatic tone to it that had been missing from the series since TSFS, and that elevates it into one of the top trek films for me.

 

[Memory Alpha]

Spock's forced mind meld with Valeris, I thought, was a way for him to make up for his own perceived naivety.

But the deal breaker for me was with the way the characters were butchered. Uhura not being able to speak Klingon nor use a translation program on the computer, forced to rely on hardcopy books and Mr. Scott's quick eye to find the right (almost) translation? Really? The ship's compassionate and humane doctor replacing an ordanance tech while the obvious casualties mount in sick bay? Mr. Chekov, one time cheif of Security, not knowing that an alarm would sound when a weapon was discharged onboard? And do we really believe that the torpedoes were never, ever fitted with any kind of sensing or tracking equipment prior to Spock's "ionized gas" attack? Or that the sensors of the ship herself, capable of detecting a tiny patch on Kirk's uniform jacket (and aren't we glad he wasn't issued prison clothing?) a sector away, couldn't have tracked a plasma trail at less than 5,000 yards?

See, some of this I have a problem with too. The other thing I never got was that the torpedoes were either all accounted for or not. I mean if you can physically account for all the torpedoes, then the Enterprise could not have fired. I think the movie leads you to believe that the cloaked Klingon prototype did the firing, so no one checked to see if all the torpedoes were there?

A phaser setting off an alarm for me seemed awfully contrived. One thing I wondered, was this some sort of a new safety feature or something? IDK.

It also seemed strange to me that a group of Starfleet brass and a group of threatened, disaffected Klingons would conspire to start a conflict with each other. Doesn't seem right. Who could be assured of victory?

I guess we can sit and poke holes in plots because people are writing with deadlines and so forth and may not think of all this, but aside from some things that are odd, I still really like the movie because it's such a rebound from ST V, it's well paced, and ultimately for me, it delivers in a big way.

 

[Smellmet]

I was always under the impression that because of Praxis, the Federation believed they could 'clean their Kronometers' and the Klingons involved also believed they could win, mainly due to their aggressive ways, maintaining the status quo.

One only has to look at the various ways conflicts continue on this planet for various reasons - arms, resources, money, territory.

Also, how do we know the people involved were not going to simply stab each other in the back either? At the end of the day we're dealing with a bad group of people who are prepared to do bad things to further their own agendas.