TUC: Overrated?
- Thread starter Simon Goldfarb
- Start date
I like it.
Yeah, me too.
Me, three. It's neither overrated or banal.
The main criticism I keep hearing and reading about Star VI was that the Cold War analogy was too obvious. I've never really understood why that is an issue.
The end of the Cold War was obviously a massive event at the time and it is not surprising that films ended up using the theme and trying to send a message.
Why is it such a problem that it was rather obvious? I think it would've been a problem if they had just taken a random theme and forced it into a Trek movie but that's not what happened. I thought the whole movie actually worked quite well. The old heroes who had been fighting Klingons on and off all their lives, there was indeed a Cold War, the end of a generation (the crew retiring, but also Galactic politics changing big time). I thought it all fit the narrative really well. I think it served both as a wonderful send-off for the old crew and also as a turning point that worked to foreshadow the events in TNG (which obviously was already running at the time). That whole "getting old" theme had already started in TWOK and came to a conclusion here. Our heroes weren't just getting old, it was also the world that changed around them big time. In the end they manage to adapt and hand over the torch.
TUC is probably my favourite Star Trek movie. I like the mood, the dinner aboard the Enterprise, the political aspects, the adventure.
The end of the Cold War was obviously a massive event at the time and it is not surprising that films ended up using the theme and trying to send a message.
Why is it such a problem that it was rather obvious? I think it would've been a problem if they had just taken a random theme and forced it into a Trek movie but that's not what happened. I thought the whole movie actually worked quite well. The old heroes who had been fighting Klingons on and off all their lives, there was indeed a Cold War, the end of a generation (the crew retiring, but also Galactic politics changing big time). I thought it all fit the narrative really well. I think it served both as a wonderful send-off for the old crew and also as a turning point that worked to foreshadow the events in TNG (which obviously was already running at the time). That whole "getting old" theme had already started in TWOK and came to a conclusion here. Our heroes weren't just getting old, it was also the world that changed around them big time. In the end they manage to adapt and hand over the torch.
TUC is probably my favourite Star Trek movie. I like the mood, the dinner aboard the Enterprise, the political aspects, the adventure.
At least they're not wearing those big goofy hats.
I like it.
Yeah, me too.
Agree. One production design question I had was why they did not replicate the photon torpedo bay rooms from WOK for TUC. It would have been a nice continuity, albeit I know this was the 1701-A, not the 1701-refit.
I suspect that was due to budget reasons. If I remember correctly initially the budget for TUC was lower than TFF due to that films poor box office but they managed to increase the budget to the same as TFF for TUC.
Seems hard to think that the symbolic end to the cold war was nearly 25 years ago (or a generation if you prefer). So for some people the Cold War is just a page in a history book as they were born after it ended, so it might give them a different perspective on the use of the Cold War anology in TUC.
Sure, just that most of the people around these parts who are the most vocal critics of the analogy appear to be much, much older than that. And no, not talking about Dennis in this case
It has some great visuals and good character moments, but I tend to hit the fast forward button at times with this movie, something I never do with TWoK.
It was good to see Sulu in the Captain's Chair finally
It was good to see Sulu in the Captain's Chair finally
I thought the Cold War analogy was no more obvious than all the Moby Dick references in TWOK, frankly. The analogy wasn't enough to take me out of the movie, so to me it felt better integrated in that sense -- I only think about the analogy after a viewing, once I've had time to analyze it myself.
With that said, TUC is pretty much the only movie that I'll definitely stop and watch if I'm channel surfing. Maybe FC or '09 once in a while, but TUC is definite.
On a side note, while channel surfing this weekend, I discovered VH1 playing TSFS. I'm all for more Trek movies on TV, but... that movie has nothing to do with pop and adult contemporary music, right? Unless the Mos Eisley Cantina scene was a bigger hit than I realized...
to me its the ultimate Star Trek movie - Meyer directing with input from Nimoy, Federation vs the Klingons, strong allegorical tale, Kirk gets in a fist fight, theres a shapeshifter, 2 Kirks, Kirk gets with an alien babe, theres a crazy Khan like villain, multiple aliens, strong foreshadowing/ties with TNG, strong ties/nods to the Genesis trilogy (like a belated 4th movie/epilogue), theres an end starships battle (the first since II), return of Excelsior & the Klingon battle cruiser (first time since TMP), multiple planets (a true 'star trek' movie)
its not the best (II) but I consider it the 'ultimate/greatest hits' Trek movie (I hope the 50th gets another 'ultimate/greatest hits' one like TUC)
its not the best (II) but I consider it the 'ultimate/greatest hits' Trek movie (I hope the 50th gets another 'ultimate/greatest hits' one like TUC)
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This. At least 99 percent of it, because STID is my new favorite of all Trek movies, and I enjoy the farcical fun of TVH so much that it's my favorite TOS cast movie.
TUC has it's faults. In particular, it's not the deepest or most original plot, and it has a few rough and almost embarrassing character moments (maybe trying too hard to remind us our heroes weren't perfect). That said, the movie was a sentimental journey if you were one of those who sat in front of your family's first color TV watching TOS in 1968. As I've posted before, I had tears in my eyes at the end of the movie.
The TWOK torpedo room had been part of the Klingon bridge in TMP. As I recall from various articles, by the time of TUC, the torpedo bay set had been significantly modified for use in other films and in TNG, so few useable pieces remained.
I don't think it's overrated. I think it's really good, and I put it up there with II and IV as among the best of the TOS movies.
I looked quickly at the responses, and I was surprised not to see what I think is a big reason if not the reason for why TUC is regarded so highly - because it came after TFF. I mean, really, anything good that came after that train wreck would be highly regarded. Plus, TUC served to have the TOS crew go out on a high note, capped off by the soaring music and the signatures on screen.
I looked quickly at the responses, and I was surprised not to see what I think is a big reason if not the reason for why TUC is regarded so highly - because it came after TFF. I mean, really, anything good that came after that train wreck would be highly regarded. Plus, TUC served to have the TOS crew go out on a high note, capped off by the soaring music and the signatures on screen.
The thing is, it's been 25 years since TFF came out, the feeling of watching TUC thinking 'this makes up for the other year' has long since passed. I think it's got great rewatch value.
I think it's given its due amount of respect. Not too much, not too little.
I had gotten the Starlog issue that had it on the cover and poured over it - from trailers and photos I thought the Enterprise had been captured by the Klingons - specifically with Kirk and McCoy being imprisoned and the Klingons playing the Captain's personal log during the trial.
While watching the film I remember being afraid Scotty was somehow the traitor since he found the engineering suits in the vent and then seemed to be acting oddly as he grabbed them and left.
I had gotten the Starlog issue that had it on the cover and poured over it - from trailers and photos I thought the Enterprise had been captured by the Klingons - specifically with Kirk and McCoy being imprisoned and the Klingons playing the Captain's personal log during the trial.
While watching the film I remember being afraid Scotty was somehow the traitor since he found the engineering suits in the vent and then seemed to be acting oddly as he grabbed them and left.
Really didn't like it. The characterizations of the crew as a bunch of racists just didn't wash, and the perestroika theme was way too on-the-nose. The dinner scene was edited horribly -- choppy as hell. And I hate the taking-a-bow scene at the end.
There are several things I do like about it -- Chekov still trying to impress Spock after all these years, the general military feel of Starfleet, Spock engaging in diplomacy. But that's about it.
There are several things I do like about it -- Chekov still trying to impress Spock after all these years, the general military feel of Starfleet, Spock engaging in diplomacy. But that's about it.
Another example of people seeing things oppositely. I think that scene is just about perfect.
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