Trek XII Will NOT Be A Remake

[Franklin]

Kor was a random bad guy who had one appearence.

Four, if you count DS9.

Fuck that noise - no reason to, especially where the question of Kirk's adversaries is concerned.

Well, the old universe is "noise," too. This Kirk wouldn't know Khan from Adam. Khan isn't even Kirk's nemesis in this universe. It'd be the first time they meet. Khan would have no past for which he was seeking revenge. He'd be just another baddie Kirk knows about as well as he knew Nero.

Want a Khan-like character? Create villain out of a Romulan who survived on the Narada. This guy would be after Kirk for trying to kill the entire crew because an obviously crazed Nero wouldn't surrender. He'd want justice for what he sees as Kirk's war crimes. To him, Kirk attacked a helpless Narada and then left everyone on the ship to die. A true nemesis with a grudge to settle, which, like Khan, may have a kernel of truth to it. It's Khan-like in theme, but not Khan.

 

[Ronson2k10]

I agree as much as I Liked Khan who could match Ricardo in a new version of him? Exiled from earth. As British criminals were given the choice of being hung or being exiled to Australia. The Botany Bay may have been headed for a new uncolonized world. After all that Khan does Kirk basically sends him on his way to completing that journey. I wouldn't want to see Khan in any of the 2 movies remaining in this series perhaps. Khan has somewhat been immortalized and having him in there would be a big waste of a golden opportunity to go some place new.

There really isn't anything you could add to Khan? His character was pretty well played out and so anything you would add now would end up being somewhat disingenuous.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

In that case, two, if you count TAS.

I don't - why would anyone? Weak stories, lame animation. Hell, I saw the whole of TAS and I don't remember where or how he appeared in it.

Khan and Kor each had one appearence in the original series. Khan became the villain of a Star Trek movie because there was more to build a story on - he had a personal motive to hate and to fight Kirk, which is always the best kind of motivation for an adversary. Kor was a lesser adversary - to say "lesser choice" is to elevate him, since there's no evidence that he was ever considered a choice.

 

[RoJoHen]

I would love this. I never really considered Khan to be Kirk's nemesis. He was a random bad guy that had 2 appearances.

Kor was a random bad guy who had one appearence.

Khan was Kirk's "nemesis" in TWOK because the character had a reason to hold a personal grudge against Kirk.

I never said Kor was his nemesis either. But really, Kirk doesn't have a nemesis, not in the traditional sense of the word. But if I really had to pick something, I would say Klingons (in general) are Kirk's nemesis.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

To me, this isn't about "giving the nerds a vapor" or "preventing the use of the best toys" this is about how lame it is, having gone through what they went though to set up a situation where they can, literately, do anything they want, without ill-regard to the previously established canon and the first thing they want to do after the set up is reuse a previously used element? Lame. Whether they could do a cool story or not, as people said, Kahn just couldn't feasibly be the villain that he was in TWOK, because you have like fifteen years of set up for that. Not to mention, to do it for the second movie of the new franchise, when the first one did it for the second, it just screams "Hey they did it for number two, why don't we?! LOL! Awesome!"

In short, Kahn isn't necessarily a problem per se, just the excuse "we're gonna use him because we can" is lame, after they did with what they did for the first movie to allow them a fresh field of stories. They made this new universe/timeline, they should very well use it.

 

[RoJoHen]

In short, Kahn isn't necessarily a problem per se, just the excuse "we're gonna use him because we can" is lame, after they did with what they did for the first movie to allow them a fresh field of stories. They made this new universe/timeline, they should very well use it.

Completely agree. Yeah, I'm sure they could make an awesome Khan film if they wanted to, but I just feel like there are so many other things they could explore!

 

[I am not Spock]

I read somewhere (a part of me died) that they are seriously considering the BORG. Please no! The Borg were TNG and VOY and they had a movie (FC). No BORG.

the were also in ENT

and I concur: please, no BORG!

And in the pilot of DS9

I agree. No Borg in XII. They've had their time in the sun.

 

[I am not Spock]

In that case, two, if you count TAS.

I don't - why would anyone? Weak stories, lame animation. Hell, I saw the whole of TAS and I don't remember where or how he appeared in it.

TAS happened. I know Roddenberry or was it Berman, liked to pretend it never existed, but it does. Many of TOS' writers participated in it, and all of the cast, bar Chekov, returned. Paramount released it on DVD, its part of the canon. Just as much as TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT are.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TAS happened. I know Roddenberry or was it Berman, liked to pretend it never existed, but it does.

Actually, none of it happened - it's all made up, and it's easier and less annoying to ignore the lame parts. TAS is the lamest.

Roddenberry was the one who objected to TAS, if anyone did. Never heard any reports that Berman even knew what it was.

 

[The Wormhole]

TAS happened. I know Roddenberry or was it Berman, liked to pretend it never existed, but it does.

It was Roddenberry who denounced TAS. But, Berman-era Trek made several referances to TAS, like Edosians and the Vulcan Forge.

 

[Dukhat]

TAS happened. I know Roddenberry or was it Berman, liked to pretend it never existed, but it does.

It was Roddenberry who denounced TAS. But, Berman-era Trek made several referances to TAS, like Edosians and the Vulcan Forge.

It's one thing to make miniscule references to TAS. It's another thing to accept it in its entirety as completely canon/official/whatever. Mike Okuda succinctly explained this when he wrote the Chronology and Encyclopedia, and I agree with him.

The thing about TAS is that it was never meant to be taken seriously as a legitimate Star Trek series. At its core, it was simply just a cartoon for kids. As Dennis stated above, it was uber-crappy Filmation animation (from the same people that brought you He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, and a complete rip-off of the Ghostbusters name with a series that had nothing whatsoever to do with the Ghostbusters movies), twenty-minute storylines that were very basic, and plot developments that were essentially contradicted by what came after it in live-action Trek.

From what I've read, Gene approved the animated series at the time because there was no other way he could get Star Trek back on TV. In retrospect, he later wished he'd never done so because he thought in the long run it hurt the "franchise." When Paramount finally sold the DVDs, they announced that TAS was "canon" simply because they knew all the pre-programmed fans lap that shit up and would buy them.

Now I'm not trashing TAS. There were even a few eps I kinda liked. But then, at the time I liked He-Man too, so there's no accounting for taste.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Now I'm not trashing TAS. There were even a few eps I kinda liked. But then, at the time I liked He-Man too, so there's no accounting for taste.

Well, I've certainly enjoyed Neo F/X's recreation of TAS with the Animated Farragut shows - but successful pastiche is an art of its own.

 

[Neumann]

Just a quote from memory alpha regarding KOR

"This was the first appearance of John Colicos as Kor. The character was also set to appear in "Day of the Dove" and "The Trouble with Tribbles", but Colicos was unavailable and other Klingon characters were written in. A script was written for Kor for the fourth season, but the show was canceled after the third season, and he never got his chance to appear again (Kor did appear in TAS: "The Time Trap", but was voiced by James Doohan). Colicos was also the person who gave the Klingons their dark-skinned, mustached look. He said he was going for the "Genghis Khan" look. He did eventually reprise his role in DS9: "Blood Oath", "The Sword of Kahless", and "Once More Unto the Breach"."


Kudos to Wormhole this time and BTC with Dennis

 

[Franklin]

What it boils down to is regardless of whether or not Kirk had any rivals (he didn't) or a nemesis (only Khan in TWOK) in the prime universe, this new universe is a blank slate. Over there, maybe he and Kor have a history of conflicts by the time they meet in XII. That they met only once in TOS is moot.
The problem with using Khan in any story set in the new universe is the things that made him Khan of TWOK are not moot. The history between him and Kirk mattered, and that doesn't exist in the new universe. The Khan of Space Seed was just another baddie who tried and failed to take over the Enterprise. Kirk never really broke a sweat dealing with him.
One argument in favor of using Khan has been that it would create buzz to reprise a villain even non-fans remember. But Trek made $275 million in the U.S. It's back on its own. Would using Khan really add that much more cache in exchange for the pressure the movie would be putting on itself to directly out-Khan TWOK? As it is, all Trek movies are inevitably indirectly compared to TWOK. Even some folks who liked ST09 a lot still don't rank it ahead of TWOK. So why invite a direct comparison? Chutzpah? Is using Khan's character worth that much?

 

[stonester1]

I think Khan, if used at all, is best left to the inevitable new series.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

(Kor did appear in TAS: "The Time Trap", but was voiced by James Doohan).

Probably why I don't remember him; rather than the real deal it just one more of the dozens of minor characters that Doohan and/or Barrett voiced for that cut-rate series.

 

[Dukhat]

A script was written for Kor for the fourth season, but the show was canceled after the third season, and he never got his chance to appear again

There were scripts written for a fourth season of TOS? First I've heard of this. Anyone have any info?

 

[T'Cal]

No remake but I'm not opposed to including a character or two from TOS or TOS movies. I'd love for them to have a good Klingon story using the kind of Klingons like Christopher Lloyds's in ST:III. He was honorable, intelligent, strong-willed, viscious, and tactically adept.

 

[Ziz]

A script was written for Kor for the fourth season, but the show was canceled after the third season, and he never got his chance to appear again

There were scripts written for a fourth season of TOS? First I've heard of this. Anyone have any info?

Matter of perspective. They weren't winding down to a formal series finale, so they were just constantly writing scripts not knowing which one would be able to be produced next. I have heard that at least some of them evolved into TAS episodes.

 

[The Wormhole]

Indeed, I doubt there were very many scripts for a fourth season. The few that did exist probably ended up becoming TAS episodes or Phase II scripts, which themselves were converted into TNG episodes.