Trek XII Will NOT Be A Remake

[Franklin]

How about a deeper story that has a moral or message I think that would be interesting and great.

I think they've (Orci and Kurtzman) said they'd like to try to have the story be allegorical. Not a blatant message, but perhaps something that speaks a bit to the current state of the world.
What impresses me is they both realize getting a good story for this movie is a daunting task compared to writing the first one. Origin stories tend to write themselves once they get started. This time, they are truly in virgin territory completely on their own. The one advantage is they can let their imaginations run wild. That's partially why I think falling back on Khan as the antagonist for any story would be kind of lazy, really.

 

[Arpy]

It would. We're at a place where we need new stories, new adventures, new leaders to take us further than where we're used to going. Khan is the albatross of the old. He's the best we've done, but he's been done and mocks us for not being able to do better. To go to him is to admit we're done, that this Trek thing is done. Even if nothing comes along to replace it, some new sci-fi uberfranchise that leaves Star Trek in the dust (yeah, right, that'll happen), we'll be stuck with a decadent product. It'll be INS, NEM and ENT with a better paintjob.

Khan, I imagine they're trying to catch the cultural zeitgeist with. The terrorist...our fear of the the dark-skinned Easterner with a grudge or a holey or larger-than-life plan. The Other, not part of a government that can challenge us as we're prepared for...my goodness, we've turned into the redcoats...we're more than able to take on the Colonists by our own rules but we're really perturbed by this new guerrilla warfare that's just not "civilized."

So um, yeah, I imagine Khan may seem juicy right now. He's the unknown terrorist we'll immediately know, and that's less work for them, but it's lazy and hackneyed and shouldn't apply. Khan is a genetically engineered ubermensch, and his story can pretty much only go as it did in "Space Seed" or TWOK. He's the pinnacle of the world's genetic engineering abilities - he's an insider. He's not some unknown desperately delusional religious fanatic. Nor do those that are deserve to be painted with the arch supervillain brush - for their sakes or ours.

This is the first real mission this crew is going to go on. Out there, on the frontier, where no man has gone before...
Are we really gonna get side-tracked first with a visit to our nasty uncle Saul's?

 

[xman]

Good news from the OP. All we need is a quick scene where Uhura or Spock catch Kirk reading up on Khan and he says, "Boy am I glad we don't have to deal with that guy. What did you come to talk about"?

OR

Before the opening credits we see the original Botany Bay and Kirk is about to assign a boarding party when Pavel Chekov (not in the original Space Seed episode interrupts with, "Ciptin. I hev ploatid de ship's trejectory and it is on course to sittle de inhebitents on Ceti Alpha 5. Pairheps ve shood let dem go un deir wei'. Cue music and credits.

 

[cooleddie74]

No Khan.

NO BORG.

No revenge.



PLEASE

How about Khan gets assimilated by the Borg...and then plots revenge...

And then gets hijacked by Christopher Lloyd in Klingon makeup and taken to find a whale. At the center of the galaxy.

 

[BolianAuthor]

I really am wondering... wtf is with all this interest in seeing Khan in a nuTrek film? I mean c'mon... gimme a break...

Number one, we already had a perfect Trek film with Khan. Number two, to even suggest that Khan appear in another film is so childishly fanwank, that it's beyond silly. And number three... I thought all you people who loved JJ-Trek loved it for the very reason that it was DIFFERENT and FRESH... a departure from Trek past. So why would you want to revisit the past Trek which you seemingly so despised, before JJ came along?

I mean I'm really trying to understand where this interest in bringing back Khan is coming from. Can someone explain?

 

[Jeyl]

I mean I'm really trying to understand where this interest in bringing back Khan is coming from. Can someone explain?

Same exact reason why they brought the original crew back. You've got be somewhat delusional to think that Trek09 was a DIFFERENT and FRESH take on Star Trek, because it wasn't. Different and fresh wouldn't have involved the original crew, the Enterprise or that timeline.

Let me ask you. When Batman Begins ended with hints that the Joker would be the next villain, did anyone whine or complain that the Joker shouldn't be in the next film because it wouldn't be different or fresh? I sure don't. In fact, the character, the writing behind him and the actor playing him were hailed as some of the best Batman material ever.

Now, you're probably going to say "Batman is a different series entirely. It's about good guys fighting bad guys. That's not Star Trek.", I'll just say that you're half right. Star Trek isn't just about good guys fighting the bad guys. However, have you seen the trend that the Star Trek movies have been on lately? 80% of all the movies have a concrete villain in it that the good guys must fight to stop. I mean, come on? Star Trek Nemesis and Trek09 both dealt with bald headed villains who had something to do with Romulas and they both wanted to destroy Earth for very vague and very plot convenient reasons. That's not different or fresh.

What I'm basically getting at is this. Khan being brought into the sequel or any future Star Trek story is not a bad thing. If he was going to be the baddie in the next movie, you can bet your rear end that nothing will play out like it did in either Space Seed or Wrath of Khan. Think about it. All those posters who say it will be a remake of The Wrath of Khan simply because Khan will be in it makes no sense. The story for Wrath of Khan had 15 years of development for all characters and lots of circumstances between those years brought everything to TWOK. There is no way the sequel can possibly be a remake of TWOK.

I'm certain that if Khan was to be in the sequel, things will probably feel familiar, but guess what? We're dealing with the original crew, the timeline and the Enterprise. Familiarity is inevitable and required. So save yourself the trouble in arguing that bringing Khan back would be unoriginal, because unoriginal characters and stories is all we're going to get.

 

[RoJoHen]

I mean I'm really trying to understand where this interest in bringing back Khan is coming from. Can someone explain?

Same exact reason why they brought the original crew back. You've got be somewhat delusional to think that Trek09 was a DIFFERENT and FRESH take on Star Trek, because it wasn't. Different and fresh wouldn't have involved the original crew, the Enterprise or that timeline.

You can hardly compare the two. Bringing the old crew back (the main characters) is nothing like bringing back a random villain that only appeared twice.

Let me ask you. When Batman Begins ended with hints that the Joker would be the next villain, did anyone whine or complain that the Joker shouldn't be in the next film because it wouldn't be different or fresh? I sure don't. In fact, the character, the writing behind him and the actor playing him were hailed as some of the best Batman material ever.

The difference between Khan and Joker is that Joker is Batman's arch-nemesis! People EXPECT Joker to pop up all the time. Batman's character is, in a way, defined by the Joker as a villain.

Kirk, however, is NOT defined by Khan. Khan was just some random guy that got pissed off and then died. A lot of people try to make Khan out to be Kirk's arch enemy, but he simply isn't.

 

[cooleddie74]

Koloth(William Campbell) would have ended up being a more constant and defining threat to Kirk back in TOS if original plans to reuse Koloth after "Tribbles" had come to fruition. Even Kor resurfaced in one of the animated episodes, making Colicos's character a more common adversary during the five-year mission than Khan ever was.

Khan was just so epic and memorable his first time out that he came to define "Kirk Enemy" in a way no other Klingon, other alien or human ever managed to. I can't imagine STII being about Captains Koloth or Kor no matter how badass and fun they were.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I really am wondering... wtf is with all this interest in seeing Khan in a nuTrek film? I mean c'mon... gimme a break...

Well for starters the idea of "Khan" offers a lot of potential. It would be nice to see someone actually try and use it and not turn the guy into a moronic ass-clown.

Number one, we already had a perfect Trek film with Khan.

Really? What one was that?

 

[startrekrcks]

What would Khan be doing if he was put in the sequel just wondering.

 

[RoJoHen]

What would Khan be doing if he was put in the sequel just wondering.

Sleeping.

 

[BolianAuthor]

Well, my point is, that people who really enjoyed JJ's take on Trek largely did so because it basically just started fresh, and told a new story. So why bring back Khan, if the fans of JJ-Trek like a new approach?

I have heard (and cannot confirm) that JJ and company want the next film to maybe perhaps even feature space itself as the threat, which would actually be brilliant, because it would be a science exploration story... the core of Trek. But even if that's not the case... look at the universe of TOS Trek... there is SO much they could do that is original and awesome... why not have a story focusing on the Gorn, or the Tholians? Personally, I'd LOVE to see one of those two TOS races on the big screen. One good thing about the TOS universe, was that it was pretty wide open, before TNG had introduced a lot of new races and borders. I think there is a lot they could do, without recycling Klingons, Romulans, or time travel. I think a well done Gorn or Tholian story could be spectacular.

 

[Gepard]

Well, my point is, that people who really enjoyed JJ's take on Trek largely did so because it basically just started fresh, and told a new story. So why bring back Khan, if the fans of JJ-Trek like a new approach?

Well, because it's a fresh approach to familiar characters. It's Spock, but now a Spock who has to deal with a different set of emotional baggage than he had in the series, and so forth. If we do get Khan, I wouldn't be surprised if he spends the first half of the movie allied with our heroes before betraying them, after meeting them under very different circumstances from the show.

 

[Jeyl]

there is SO much they could do that is original and awesome... why not have a story focusing on the Gorn, or the Tholians? Personally, I'd LOVE to see one of those two TOS races on the big screen.

I think it's pretty safe to say that will never happen. EVER. Have you seen how JJ approaches aliens in Trek09? The biggest eye-popping alien he wanted to focus on was not the very large, alien looking helmsman on the Kelvin, but the very human looking doctor with big fake CGI eyes.

I was amazed at how many aliens were made for the film but ended up not doing anything. Have you seen the Gorn in the making of feature? It's horrendous. To add insult to injury, the Star Trek artbook says it was actually "inspired by the Gorn", not directly a Gorn. And take a look at the Klingons. JJ went out of his way to hide the 'ridge debate'.

Also, look at how Vulcan was treated. Remember how it had the red/orange colored atmosphere that carried on from the series through the movies and subsequent spinoffs? Now it's just a very Earth-like planet with lush blue skies. Not very alien, is it? So if they won't get Vulcan right, what do you expect them to do with anything else?

In fact, I bet if JJ does involve the Tholians, he'll simply make their unique looking heads into helmets with very humanoid faces inside of them.

 

[The Comedian]

Khan could concievably end up as a good guy, yanno.

If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally...

 

[RoJoHen]

I guess, ultimately, I'm still operating under the assumption that Space is Big. Under that premise, it just seems silly that Kirk would somehow manage to run into Khan again in this alternate timeline. Hell, it seems unlikely that anybody would run into the Botany Bay.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Well the issue is, if Trek is committed to going with the standard villain route (which is a whole nother bag of conversational worms), then they really need to try harder.

Outside of DS9, Trek has never had good villains--even Nero really wasn't all that great. Khan is supposed to be that villain; except he isn't. They tell us he's a charismatic super-genius and then show us he's actually a jaded and angry fool.

So, really, I don't care what they do as long as it's actually something decent. Khan is simply the quickest means to that end.

 

[Vonstadt]

You Know to be honest, I think what they need to do is to go the entirely original route. Give us something new to sink our teeth into. Let go of the past, keep up the nods to the roots as they have been doing but basically I want to see something that doesn't include time travel (enough already imo) ... give us a good well written scifi story.

Lets see these new takes on our old favorites branch out and make a name for themselves now. Save Khan and the Botany Bay for a later film, give us a new baddie or baddies for our gang to square off against, new puzzles to solve, add new material to the trek universe.

After all that is what good trek is all about.]

Vons