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Things that don't add up:

It's a complicated set of rules, apparently, your future is only set in stone if you are the first person to touch the crystal after Tenavik removed it from the cave. Michael, for example, saw things that never happened. Also, the crystal seems to be causing these dreadful fates! I mean what if Pike had seen himself dying in his bed peacefully a very old man surrounded with friends and family? I doubt he would have recoiled from that in horror. So it's very possible that the crystal is causing people to have a horrible future. For example for a Klingon, the best death is one that happens in battle. So dying in his bed is what would make a Klingon recoil in horror.;)
Now imagine the horror of the Klingon who touches the crystal ... and faces a future in which he receives the Federation peace price!
 
I mean, that's basically what happened when Tyler met mirror!Voq, noble leader of the proto-Federation resistance in the mirror universe, isn't it?

Yeah, now imagine how upset Voq would have been if he had learned that MU Voq was in fact future Voq! Imagine Voq trying to kill himself to escape that future and always missing!!! (Because his fate is sealed).
 
I mean, that's basically what happened when Tyler met mirror!Voq, noble leader of the proto-Federation resistance in the mirror universe, isn't it?

I still think the mirror universe Klingons should have narratively had a role to play or secret to reveal in terms of how to solve the main universes issues, making the MU part of a complete arc that matters.
 
I do remember it being discussed. Indeed, it was that that convinced by Tyler must have been a surgically altered Voq, because otherwise if a human was being held captive on his and L'Rell's ship they would have eaten him. Then they had to go and confuse the matter by establishing that yes, Ash Tyler was an actual person being held captive and that he and Voq did some sort of weird surgical graft and merge, blend sort of thing. It's best not to think about the whole thing at all because it really does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

The real Tyler being at the Battle of the Binary Stars doesn’t confuse things at all. You’re confusing it yourself by assuming that he was a hostage on Voq’s ship, meaning he likely should have been eaten, but the timeline you’ve created doesn’t work. Voq was turned into Tyler after he’d been abandoned on the Shenzou, and L’Rell had gone to retrieve him. She clearly did not take Voq back to the shop they’d originally been stranded on for all those months, therefore Tyler was not a captive of Voq and so would never have been at risk of being eaten by starving Klingons.

The obvious explanation is that the original Tyler would’ve been held captive by other Klingons, who left the scene of the battle. When L’Rell and Voq eventually put their plan into action, they would have clearly had access to Tyler at that point, from whomever was holding him hostage. Tyler’s memories of that time are clearly bogus, and were always bogus. You can’t synchronise his “story” with the real events, because the former clearly was not real, or in some instances was his “human mind” trying to rationalise memories that he had of L’Rell that were clearly Voq’s own experiences.

It makes perfect sense.
 
The real Tyler being at the Battle of the Binary Stars doesn’t confuse things at all. You’re confusing it yourself by assuming that he was a hostage on Voq’s ship, meaning he likely should have been eaten, but the timeline you’ve created doesn’t work. Voq was turned into Tyler after he’d been abandoned on the Shenzou, and L’Rell had gone to retrieve him. She clearly did not take Voq back to the shop they’d originally been stranded on for all those months, therefore Tyler was not a captive of Voq and so would never have been at risk of being eaten by starving Klingons.

The obvious explanation is that the original Tyler would’ve been held captive by other Klingons, who left the scene of the battle. When L’Rell and Voq eventually put their plan into action, they would have clearly had access to Tyler at that point, from whomever was holding him hostage. Tyler’s memories of that time are clearly bogus, and were always bogus. You can’t synchronise his “story” with the real events, because the former clearly was not real, or in some instances was his “human mind” trying to rationalise memories that he had of L’Rell that were clearly Voq’s own experiences.

It makes perfect sense.


Well, it's a possibility.
 
The chronology for Season two seems completely out of whack. They say that Control had been modified by a version of it from the future but that future version came with the modified probe ( episode 7 "Light and Shadows"). So who framed Spock for the murder of three people and why? Since it was way before Control was changed then it couldn't be it. Plus whoever framed him, killed three people. I mean it would have been hard to make the charges stick with the people still alive!! Either Control was already malfunctioning and murdering people at the beginning of the story or it doesn't make sense. Looks like that program was seriously messed up. Sounds like something Microsoft would produce!!:D


That's one of my pet niggles.

Dialogue on the show said that the Vulcan Admiral and others they found had been dead for weeks, so that was well before the probe in episode 7. I think Control had been acting up before those events, the probe's arrival just sped things up more.
 
The Control story might have gone down better had there been some very small subtle hints in season 1 that maybe it wasn't working as intended, nothing major just little hints maybe in the middle of the season or towards the end.
 
The Control story might have gone down better had there been some very small subtle hints in season 1 that maybe it wasn't working as intended, nothing major just little hints maybe in the middle of the season or towards the end.
Problem there is that Section 31 wasn't on the minds of anyone in the season 1 writer's room until the finale when they decided to throw in a scene establishing the Black Badges were Section 31.
I really want to know the original plot outline.
Deconstructing religion.
 
The Control story might have gone down better had there been some very small subtle hints in season 1 that maybe it wasn't working as intended, nothing major just little hints maybe in the middle of the season or towards the end.

True. However, I can't fault Disco for doing something that would have been unthinkable in other ST series, IE plant little factoids that will be used in later episodes, (e.g., Stamets being out of time, Tilly's infection by a "green" spore, Airam's compromised state...etc) I believe that's a nice effort.
 
True. However, I can't fault Disco for doing something that would have been unthinkable in other ST series, IE plant little factoids that will be used in later episodes, (e.g., Stamets being out of time, Tilly's infection by a "green" spore, Airam's compromised state...etc) I believe that's a nice effort.

I am not going to give them extra credit since that is literally the entire point of an arc based show and similar to every other genre piece on TV these days.

they did very little to draw their Arc to a satisfying conclusion or show in any way that it was pre-planned.
 
So because Control wasn't introduced in Season 1, it couldn't be in Season 2? New adversaries pop up in new seasons all the time. Control is mentioned right from the first episode Section 31 is featured in during the second season of Discovery. Then it built from there.

Do I think Control could've been handled better? Of course. But if Starfleet ships weren't relying on Control, the Klingons weren't relying on Control, and no one in the Mirror Universe was using Control, then there's no opening to mention Control until we're in a scene with Section 31. And when Leland first approaches Georgiou, the first thing he's going to say isn't going to be, "Guess what, Phillipa? We use Control!" It first comes up when it makes sense to come up.

Matt Weiner didn't know how he was going to end Mad Men until the beginning of the fifth season. Battlestar Galactica's "plan" turned out to be no plan at all. Things grow organically. People feel inspired. They come up with things as they come up with them. Serialized or not. If you think that everything has to be planned out from the start, then it's not serialization you're looking for, in and of itself, you're looking for what JMS did with Babylon 5 where he had the whole series planned out before they even shot a single frame.
 
Actually, alt-Georgiou said that she was using an A.I. in the MU but that it took orders from her and not the other way around. Leland even made a sarcastic remark: "How did that work out for you?"
Well, better than it worked out for him!!
 
Matt Weiner didn't know how he was going to end Mad Men until the beginning of the fifth season. Battlestar Galactica's "plan" turned out to be no plan at all. Things grow organically. People feel inspired. They come up with things as they come up with them. Serialized or not. If you think that everything has to be planned out from the start, then it's not serialization you're looking for, in and of itself, you're looking for what JMS did with Babylon 5 where he had the whole series planned out before they even shot a single frame.

I don't need everything to be locked in, but I've been disappointed often enough by arc-based/serialised shows that I do expect the showrunners to have a general direction. We saw what happened when the X-Files played it by ear. No thanks to that.

Overall, there have been many more serialised failures than successes, in my book. I know that sort of storytelling is all the rage, but it's not often done particularly well. And so far, Discovery hasn't managed it.
 
It took longer in the original timeline. All the chaos in S2 was because Control learned of it's destiny early and would stop at nothing to acquire that data.

At least, that's how I saw it.
It was a Biff Tinner's Sports Almanac thing, I think Biff's going to be a butthead in any timeline, but if he KNOWS he's got a magic book to make him rich and powerful, then hes' really dangerous and he'll do anything to get it and keep it.
 
The problem is that when the octopus upgraded probe is sent back from the future most things had already happened. Spock had already been framed by someone/something that didn't hesitate to kill three people to do so and that thing coincides in methods and motives with future control. So it makes you wonder what purpose the cephalopod served. If Control was already advanced enough to do all that scheming by itself.
 
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