Things that don't add up:

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Discofan, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    Here's your chance to share details about Discovery that IYO don't hold water.

    I'll start:

    Ash Tyler's story that he survived Klingon torture for seven months because of L'Rell interest in him doesn't make sense since we know that she and Voq were stuck for six months on T'Kuvma's ship where they were starving!! One would think they wouldn't have kept human prisoners (that they would have to feed) when they were reduced to cannibalism to survive. Tyler could only have been selected for the "experiment" after L'Rell got Voq's assent that he would go through with it which was only one month at most before the events of "Choose Your Pain". So there's a hole of six months in Tyler's detention that is inexplicable.
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spock's functionality while temporarily insane was... variable. But thinking on it, it seems it simply degraded more and more as more time passed following his mind meld on the Red Angel. Vulcan brains and all, thinking on impossible paradoxes...

    Also, how did Michael Burnham perform the "miracle" of stopping the Kelpian genocide? The USS Discovery couldn't stop the Ba'ul, but Michael could? Also... thinking on it, she seemed to have unlimited access to space/time in the suit (her mother discibes seeing Michael's entire life, and Michael seemed able to scroll her way through earlier episodes) and would have as long as she wanted to to decipher what she needed to do... even if that's not quite how it was shown.
     
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  3. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The AquaBomb plot, the Giant Space Tardigrade that can magically teleport, injecting Stamets with Tardigrade DNA so that he too gets magic powers, Tyler's chainsaw surgery that leaves absolutely no evidence, most of season one.
     
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  4. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    The Tardigrade goes into a cryptobiosis state by shedding nearly all the water in its body but then i'ts ejected in SPACE where it gets all its water back, apparently, in an instant!!! Where does that water come from?
     
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  5. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Captain Captain

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    Star Trek in general. But still entertaining.
     
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  6. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think that one is so hard, with all of the mind-sifting or whatever, he only thinks it's been seven months (who knows when he was actually captured, and by whom, etc.).

    What's funny, is I dont recall anyone at the time everyone was originally watching season 1, picking up on the obvious clue that because of the timeline with L'Rell his story was BS.
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    He says he was captured at the Battle of the Binary Stars, and presumably Starfleet records could confirm whether or not he was there.
    I do remember it being discussed. Indeed, it was that that convinced by Tyler must have been a surgically altered Voq, because otherwise if a human was being held captive on his and L'Rell's ship they would have eaten him. Then they had to go and confuse the matter by establishing that yes, Ash Tyler was an actual person being held captive and that he and Voq did some sort of weird surgical graft and merge, blend sort of thing. It's best not to think about the whole thing at all because it really does not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
     
  8. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    Why didn't Daniels , or some Temporal Agents put a halt to the Red Angel program?
     
  9. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    Presumably, with Control wiping out all sentient life, Daniels would never exist and if Daniels did exist then it would mean Control had been defeated and his intervention would be moot.
     
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  10. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He didn't have...time.
     
  11. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Commodore

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    The chronology for Season two seems completely out of whack. They say that Control had been modified by a version of it from the future but that future version came with the modified probe ( episode 7 "Light and Shadows"). So who framed Spock for the murder of three people and why? Since it was way before Control was changed then it couldn't be it. Plus whoever framed him, killed three people. I mean it would have been hard to make the charges stick with the people still alive!! Either Control was already malfunctioning and murdering people at the beginning of the story or it doesn't make sense. Looks like that program was seriously messed up. Sounds like something Microsoft would produce!!:D
     
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  12. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One of the most glaring things I've noticed and haven't seen it mentioned anywhere was the Section 31 officers aboard Discovery in the third episode, Context is for Kings.

    It was never followed up on or mentioned again.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Lorca not objecting more to going and checking out the space whale.

    Kor
     
  15. serabine

    serabine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Erm, Tyler was never on the sarcophagus ship? And the "I survived six months as a prisoner of war because L'Rell, the warden, used me for sex" is just an implanted cover story to diffuse doubt about how Tyler survived that long. That's where the timeline overlap comes from. Tyler genuinely thinks that he was imprisoned for six months by L'Rell, because him actually believing that makes him a perfect liar.

    Also, L'Rell didn't come up with the idea for the procedure on the fly. House Mokai is specialized in subterfuge, interrogation, and spywork, so they have a natural interest in sleeper agents. Since the Federation does know to search for a more common type of sleeper (Culber mentioned that at one point I think) they came up with this new version. Given how sophisticated the whole procedure was, this can't have been the first time they tried it. They must have had test runs of some sort to perfect the method, from which follows that they had to have a few test subjects beforehand. So I assume that whenever they found a likely candidate to subvert (for example when they get called in for interrogations) they kept them alive for an opportunity to use the technique. So, the real Tyler was imprisoned somewhere, while L'Rell was with Voq on the sarcophagus ship. And when L'Rell finds a willing martyr in Voq, they just had to pick the fitting specimen from their "stock".
     
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  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because they were all too busy trying to fix their own fuckups.
     
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  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Voq/Ash transformation seems to be semi-mystical, like it involved some dark arts, or like something from GoT, rather than just a straight up surgery, like Dukat being made to look Bajoran.
     
  18. serabine

    serabine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    For those two:

    It's not "magical" that the tardigrade can teleport. It's a creature that has evolved so that it can interact with an adjacent plane to "normal" space by incorporating dna from the mycelium that exists in both planes, and can circumnavigate large distances in normal space almost instantaneous by traveling through said plane. That's more of an explanation than we ever got about, say, how the Iconian gates work. At this point I'm really starting to suspect that people are so dismissive about some of the technologies in Discovery because they are based in biology, which some people see as "soft" science and therefore is inherently less serious.

    And Tyler's surgery did leave plenty of evidence. But as Culber explained, in the normal course of examination when Tyler first came on board they thought his internal scarring was remnants of torture. The Federation had never encountered a sleeper agent of this kind before, so they didn't know what to look out for. But as soon as Culber had reason to take a closer look it became evident that organs were transplanted, and bones shortened, which led him to take a closer look at Tyler's brain, which revealed the whole personality atop another thing.
     
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  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it would have been easier to just explain it as them transferring Voq's consciousness onto Tyler's body. And maybe was going to be the original explanation, since Tyler existed in there too, which means they somehow transferred Tyler's consciousness into Voq. Maybe it's vague enough that we can explain it this way anyway? If we take it the other way, then the Klingons not only achieved this insane surgery of making this big brute of a Klingon look human, they made him look identical to a particular human, and without any outward evidence of the change. Am I making sense?
     
  20. SpocksOddSocks

    SpocksOddSocks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agreed, but I'm assuming the real Tyler was already dead at this point. What, with no human being able to withstand seven months of Klingon torture and all. So transferring the consciousness to a long dead body might not have been within their abilities. They did, however, have his real memories downloaded from his actual interrogation that could be used for Voq.

    As for the Control thing on series 2, I think it was already acting on its own before the download from the future. The download from the future was actually just a more advanced iteration... I suppose. But yeah, several parts of the season 2 arc don't quite seem to work for me either, just no one thing on its own.