The Walking Dead Season 6 Discussion

[Silvercrest]

"They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out."

 

[Morpheus 02]

I though Carol in particular was great -- seeing some of the negative consequences to her actions. The ting is, she seems more flexible than Morgan, which is good for her to help her grow. However, with 5 couples .. I am guessing AT LEAST 2 will have tragic endings (worse than Rosita). Carol would be one of them, thoug h not sure if she'll be the survivor or if she is the one who dies .

If it's her...she definitely would deserve a very long goodbye & memorial. She definitely wins the award for deepest journey.

And Morgan...it might be time for him to pack his bags.. I don't want him to die...but I thin this will be too much for him. I would like for him to be a different kind of savior later on.


Also, I am guessing no one will die next episode (at least not Carol or Maggie)

And the crew was really stupid...with all of those dishes it should have been clear this was NOT Negan's HQ, but rather a satellite campus.

 

[sojourner]

The first was Abraham leaving Rosita for no reason I thought for sure when he smiled while getting choked out in the last episode he was going to finally use his Bisquick to make her some pancakes.

You must have missed the previous part of that episode where it became clear to him that he was falling in love with Sasha.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

^ No, I picked up on that. Sasha's a good looking woman, but Rosita had been with Abraham from the start, would seemingly do anything for him and is insanely beautiful (not to mention looks good wearing short shorts in the zombie apocalypse). It just seemed a little sudden for Abraham to pack up and leave her (in an assholish manner to boot) for someone he's spent a few guard shifts with and a cross country walker road trip with.

 

[auntiehill]

But, as Abraham so cruelly told Rosita, he didn't love her. She was just "a woman" to him--not "THE woman." I was really starting to like Abraham, but that was total dick move on his part. He fell in love with Sasha and dropped poor Rosita like a hot potato.

 

[EmoBorg]

Reading the TWD facebook comments about the latest episode, there is a theory that the group holding Maggie and Carol hostage are not part of Negan's Gang. The group was scavenging when they came across Maggie and Carol. They captured both of them and heard about the raid. One of them then just tried his luck to steal something and he was caught.

 

[bbjeg]

Another fine episode. I was put off hearing Carol and Maggie got captured at first. Maggie is quick on her feet and Carol is Rambo but I could see Carol backing down to protect the sidetracked captured Maggie (like how that walker walked up on her).

I'm also enjoying the new Gabriel. The prayer before execution was on par with Samuel L. Jackson's in Pulp Fiction. It's a big step from his useless self before.

Rick's zombie head nose breaking punch was a good touch too and again, his "What?" response enhances his badassery.

Reading the TWD facebook comments about the latest episode, there is a theory that the group holding Maggie and Carol hostage are not part of Negan's Gang. The group was scavenging when they came across Maggie and Carol. They captured both of them and heard about the raid. One of them then just tried his luck to steal something and he was caught.

Good theory but I agree with everyone saying Negan just has multiple bases.

Okay, time for some perspective.

Negan didn't lose just twenty guys in the raid. He lost a base. Maybe not THE base, but a place where he quartered troops and did business is now lost to him for as long as it takes for him to take it back. The land lost is part of the attrition. It wouldn't be a severe blow if they killed twenty guys and there were eighty more in the same building on the same grounds. They killed twenty guys and all that was left was maybe four to take Maggie and Carol. That was a significant blow, no matter how some of you want to sour the achievement.

Don't forget that weapon stash they captured. It was definitely a big blow.

... with 5 couples .. I am guessing AT LEAST 2 will have tragic endings (worse than Rosita)...

I have the same feeling.

 

[Silvercrest]

And the crew was really stupid...with all of those dishes it should have been clear this was NOT Negan's HQ, but rather a satellite campus.

Rrrrrimshot.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Really good episode for the most part.. Gritty and tense. Could feel the emotion, especially from Glen.

There's a serious problem with the series when it has Glenn--after so much time in the ZA--never once killing a living person. Considering the high number of threats faced, how is it that he has never killed even one? If you remove the obvious characters such as Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Carol, just about all other major and supporting characters had been forced to kill at one time or another, including Maggie, Carl, Merle, Beth (assuming she could not miss shooting at Governor 2.0's group), Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Bob, Tara, Shane, Lizzie...the list goes on and on. Even Hershel--the most religious man in WD history--has killed as early as his debut season.

Glenn has had several, direct encounters with human enemies, and for him to have just slipped by without even one kill (after the shootout against Randall's gang, every Governor conflict, Terminus, etc.) make it seem as if he's had it easy--or even when firing on enemies...was not really trying to hit them, as in the scene where he's shooting at the Governor's escaping group in "Welcome to the Tombs."

The issue of Carol smoking bugs me though. It's a lazy plot device to convey angst and strife. To the best of my knowledge, she's never been seen smoking before. Non smokers don't suddenly smoke when they are stressed out. If she used to, that's one thing, maybe.. But it's SO overused in TV and movies, showing non-smoking characters suddenly doing it. Maybe there was reference to it somewhere, so I'll have to watch again.

It was out of nowhere, and yes, it is a lazy, overused plot device for poor writers; there are other ways to illustrate a person's struggling with their life, or adopting loose behavior because they are on unstable psychological ground.

"I fear that we have done nothing more than to awaken a sleeping giant, and fill him with a terrible resolve."

I'm not saying that slaughtering a bunch of murderous thugs was the wrong thing to do, but all during Rick's address at the church, I was flashing back to The Governor's "we have to get them before they get us" speech from a few seasons back.

I said this a couple of weeks ago--Rick is behaving exactly as the Governor did about the National Guard unit, and how he sold the reasons for attacking the prison in "Too Far Gone." In fact, Tara revealed (to Father Gabriel) that she had been a part of something like this before--home run evidence that Rick's survivalist reasoning is not much different than the Governor.

If that approach (preemptive attacks under a survivalist motive) failed for one, we should expect it to fail for another--it is patently illogical, and self destructive, as we are guaranteed to witness.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

Do we know that Glenn hasnt actually killed anyone before? It probably is a different thing to kill someone in a firefight when they are shooting at you or chasing you and then murdering someone in cold blood when they are sleeping.

 

[hux]

But, as Abraham so cruelly told Rosita, he didn't love her. She was just "a woman" to him--not "THE woman." I was really starting to like Abraham, but that was total dick move on his part. He fell in love with Sasha and dropped poor Rosita like a hot potato.

He's got three choices.

1) dump her
2) stay with her and be unhappy
3) cheat on her

Ultimately, he made the right choice (albeit in a rather blunt fashion).

I find it interesting that the moment Carol begins to doubt herself and let some of Morgan's philosophy seep in, is the moment she gets captured. "Kill em all Carol" wouldn't have let them anywhere near her before cutting em to shreds.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Do we know that Glenn hasnt actually killed anyone before? It probably is a different thing to kill someone in a firefight when they are shooting at you or chasing you and then murdering someone in cold blood when they are sleeping.

That was the point of his hesitation--he's never killed a living person in any episode of the series.

Here's an excerpt from a recent interview with Greg Nicotero about Glenn's history of never killing the living:

With Glenn, it's something that he's been very fortunate about not ever having had to deal with in the past. He has the great conversation with Heath, where he's like, "I've never had to do this before and now we're about to do it." But they're willing to do it because it preserves their way of life. I mean, when Rick says in the church, "Alright guys, anybody that's not down with it, let's talk about it. I love the fact that he's not setting the law. He's putting it out there for a vote. Nobody except for Morgan stands up and says, "I don't think we should do this. So, Glenn is onboard.

He's got three choices.

1) dump her
2) stay with her and be unhappy
3) cheat on her

Ultimately, he made the right choice (albeit in a rather blunt fashion).

He was thoroughly abusive in the way he handled it. He's been around "softer" personalities long enough to know how relationships work--and how they do not work. Rosita actually loved him, and was not some "weekend ass" who meant nothing more to him. If she had hurt him--dumped or manipulated him in any way, at any time, then his dismissive tone would be completely understandable, but that did not happen.

Yes, you can say he made the right choice, but at a time when tension is high, trouble from within does not help anyone.

I find it interesting that the moment Carol begins to doubt herself and let some of Morgan's philosophy seep in, is the moment she gets captured. "Kill em all Carol" wouldn't have let them anywhere near her before cutting em to shreds.

She's still dealing with a moral crisis leftover from season 4; she might have justified killing Karen & David, but her...No Way Out (ahem) situation with Lizzie haunts her. While she truly had no way out--no alternative to dealing with a dysfunctional child willing to make her arguments through murder, its not Carol's fault. She is--naturally--devastated about taking that action, but it was not the result of being a survivalist killing machine like the Governor, the Termites...or Rick.

I have the bad feeling that Carol's attempt to change will be slapped down by forcing her to become Wonder Carol again, or to prove that she is not wanting to live by those standards any longer--offer herself as a sacrifice to Negan (or any of his crew). That would be sad end for a tragedy-plagued character, and her death would likely not have the intended effect. It would be more revenge plotting.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Keep in mind that the Rambo from First Blood (which is the best parallel ever for Carol in my opinion) was of a similar mindset to her now. Both of them wanted to put their violent pasts behind them, but circumstances keep forcing them to abandon that ideal. And even as they do so, you can tell they're full of self-guilt and regret even as they massacre everyone around them like a boss.

 

[Caligula]

Reading the TWD facebook comments about the latest episode, there is a theory that the group holding Maggie and Carol hostage are not part of Negan's Gang.

Saw that, too. Makes sense, especially when the title of next week's episode, "Same Boat," is considered. Mostly, I'm just excited to see Alicia Witt on TWD.

I've also been keeping tabs on this whole "Who will Negan kill?" question that won't die down no matter how many times someone tries to calm down the curious among the fan base. I think Sunday's episode may have given us our best clue. Watching Morgan stand alone in his opposition to Rick's plan, his "all life is precious" mantra fully established while the others... Glenn included... are out taking part in a risky yet kinda ballsy sneak attack on one of Negan's outposts, it seems more clear now than ever that Morgan will be the one Negan eliminates. We know that, for the death to have any impact, the victim must be someone who has been a part of the TWD universe since Episode #1. For it to have the most emotional impact, you'd think it would have to be either Glenn or Daryl (most do). Though Morgan has not been as well-loved by the fans, particularly during the current season, it makes the most thematic sense. There's also the scene where he appears to be building something... a cage more than likely, and presumably meant for Rick. That cage might come in handy later on, whether or not Morgan's still alive and is the one to put someone inside it....

The issue of Carol smoking bugs me though. It's a lazy plot device to convey angst and strife. To the best of my knowledge, she's never been seen smoking before. Non smokers don't suddenly smoke when they are stressed out. If she used to, that's one thing, maybe.. But it's SO overused in TV and movies, showing non-smoking characters suddenly doing it. Maybe there was reference to it somewhere, so I'll have to watch again.

Can't speak for ALL non-smokers, but I know I've certainly never gone that route when I'm stressed. Then again, the ZA does provide a certain uncharted level of stress. It kinda bugged me, too, but it is like you said. That particular plot device has been used so many times that it's easy to anticipate, almost to the point of bordering on parody.

 

[Admiral2]

If that approach (preemptive attacks under a survivalist motive) failed for one, we should expect it to fail for another--it is patently illogical, and self destructive, as we are guaranteed to witness.

Horseshit. The fact that the approach didn't work for one group doesn't automatically mean it won't work for anybody. There are always factors - leadership, skill, preparation, alliances, etc. - that help determine the outcome.

Unrestricted submarine warfare didn't work for the Nazis in WWII because the target of their attacks, Britain, was sustained by an ally during the worst of the supply shortages the tactic caused. The same approach worked great for the United States because its target - Japan - had no such ally.

If the consequences of the group's action turn out to be dire, it's only because that's the way the writers wanted it, not because there's something inherently wrong with the concept of preemptive action.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Horseshit. The fact that the approach didn't work for one group doesn't automatically mean it won't work for anybody.

Yes, it does mean that for several inarguable reasons:

1. Rick's group of "best" fighters are few in number, and they have numerous weak people to defend at the ASZ. If any of the "best" are eliminated, their chances of survival take a grave plunge into the "not so good" category. Remember, they do not have reinforcements of types like Shane, Merle and others of that skill set.

2. Every indicator about Negan's group--from the car/gun attack pursuit, the deadly intentions of the motorcycle roadblock to the info on a head getting beat in (the returning man at Hilltop), and the apparent, serious fear all seem to have about the Saviors is screaming a danger not to be underestimated.

What does Rick's group do? Underestimate Negan's group, with even Michonne wondering if one of the few they killed was Negan. Wha--?

Oh, and before the "survival" raid was over, two of their group (among their last, best fighters) are kidnapped--with ease.

3.They have no idea how many are actually among the Saviors, yet they were far too confident in thinking they were going to just eliminate the enemy. Based on what?

No intel means no attack. Only a suicidal idiot--with not a clue about true size or numbers (notice how Jesus gives them no clue about that) would think they would get any advantage out of that attack

If the consequences of the group's action turn out to be dire, it's only because that's the way the writers wanted it, not because there's something inherently wrong with the concept of preemptive action.

When you know nothing about the enemy--other than a quickly building list of fear and extreme violence--you don't underestimate the enemy with an astoundingly presumptuous preemptive strike. That cost the Governor Woodbury and his second group. Think about it, of all of those people, only Tara still lives.

 

[Morpheus 02]

There's a serious problem with the series when it has Glenn--after so much time in the ZA--never once killing a living person. Considering the high number of threats faced, how is it that he has never killed even one? If you remove the obvious characters such as Rick, Michonne, Daryl and Carol, just about all other major and supporting characters had been forced to kill at one time or another, including Maggie, Carl, Merle, Beth (assuming she could not miss shooting at Governor 2.0's group), Sasha, Abraham, Rosita, Bob, Tara, Shane, Lizzie...the list goes on and on. Even Hershel--the most religious man in WD history--has killed as early as his debut season.

Glenn has had several, direct encounters with human enemies, and for him to have just slipped by without even one kill (after the shootout against Randall's gang, every Governor conflict, Terminus, etc.) make it seem as if he's had it easy--or even when firing on enemies...was not really trying to hit them, as in the scene where he's shooting at the Governor's escaping group in "Welcome to the Tombs."

Do we know that Glenn hasnt actually killed anyone before? It probably is a different thing to kill someone in a firefight when they are shooting at you or chasing you and then murdering someone in cold blood when they are sleeping.

I'm thinking he hasn't killed anyone close range, where he can literaly see them die in front of him.

I am sure he must've shot someone like from Woodbury, but it's not a confirmed kill, as it could have been someone else who got the killshot. From the dead bodies he's seen, he wouldn't have known any he would've actually killed (and neither would anyone else, necessarily).

It's pretty weird...but I think it was "needed" drama for a character we're actually invested in. (Does any TV fan really care about Heath yet?)

 

[Morpheus 02]

He was thoroughly abusive in the way he handled it. He's been around "softer" personalities long enough to know how relationships work--and how they do not work. Rosita actually loved him, and was not some "weekend ass" who meant nothing more to him. If she had hurt him--dumped or manipulated him in any way, at any time, then his dismissive tone would be completely understandable, but that did not happen.

Yes, you can say he made the right choice, but at a time when tension is high, trouble from within does not help anyone.

Yeah, Abraham was totally a jerk -- but maybe it was his intention? Make him self so unloveable, that he is able to break ties with Rosita, and she won't be sad when he dies.

In his dream, Sasha wasn't interested in a relationship. So maybe since he's not willing to make pancakes, he's willing to cut all emotional ties...and possibly be one to die this season (which is now, what 4 or 5 episodes left?????)

--

Also, with 5 couples (Carol & her guy, Rick/Michonne, Glenn/Maggie, Denise/Tara, Aaron/Eric)...at least 2 will end tragically. Probably Tara dying, maybe Carol??

However, for next week...perhaps no one will die...Negan doesn't seem to be among them, so maybe no gets it from the Satellite survivors?

And are the 2 who took Darryl's bike & crossbow dead, do we know...or perhaps they could help?

If Darryl were to die...he at least needs to get the bow back first, right?

 

[hux]

Reading the TWD facebook comments about the latest episode, there is a theory that the group holding Maggie and Carol hostage are not part of Negan's Gang. The group was scavenging when they came across Maggie and Carol. They captured both of them and heard about the raid. One of them then just tried his luck to steal something and he was caught.

Wait... So you're saying there's a small group of survivors passing through the woods and they come across a building that's being attacked by armed badasses and they think "hey, we should take advantrage of this great opportunity and send one of our guys into that bloodbath"?

Seems unlikely.

Then again, the clip we saw of the next episode suggests that they weren't part of the satellite complex so who knows.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Wait... So you're saying there's a small group of survivors passing through the woods and they come across a building that's being attacked by armed badasses and they think "hey, we should take advantrage of this great opportunity and send one of our guys into that bloodbath"?

Seems unlikely.

Then again, the clip we saw of the next episode suggests that they weren't part of the satellite complex so who knows.

Now, the couple who stole Darryl's bike... were they with Negan's people? Or another community that's under Negan's rule? They kept it pretty vague... I guess it's AM's plan to make us binge watch?