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The Presidential & VP Debates

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Humorous? I didn't ascribe that IDIC to Trump, I ascribe it to this forum and the treatment of the participants of this board.
Yes, but you have spent the entirety of this thread and others defending Donald Trump, a man who makes a mockery of the very concept of diversity and would gladly encourage it being reduced from right wing terror groups killing people of color, Jews, Muslims, and LGBTQ people. You can't just casually use IDIC as a shield when it suits you and then in the same breath carry water for a man who abhors the very idea of it and attacks it.

Le Sigh.. Another personal attack, calling me a nazi.. great..
On record saying Trump himself is a Douch Nozzlle.. but he's my " Fuhrer".. Sigh..
Huh.. wheres the moderator saying something about personal attacks.. .. crickets..
Ugh..
I missed it. I agree that it crosses the line. @Ricky Spanish , please don't say that again.

Here's the issue though. Trump has supported actual Nazis, calling them very fine people. He has refused to condemn white supremacists when offered multiple chances including the most slow-pitch softball question ever on the debate stage. Remember the David Duke guy you were talking about earlier, former Grand Wizard of the KKK? Trump pretended not to know who he was instead of condemning him, despite speaking about him several times before on video. Then there are all the times he has acted like a dictator himself.

So when someone acts like a wannabe Führer, and you defend that person, even if you may not agree with all of those things, it's kind of hard to dissociate support for the man from support for those actions. Because it's a little like saying "But what about all the good things Hitler did?" Now I'm not saying he's Hitler by any means. But he's in the fan club.

You can't just keep saying "I think Trump is a douche nozzle, but I like his tax policy..." as if that gives you coverage for all the horrible things he's done which you have kind of swept under the douche nozzle label, which doesn't quite cut it. At some point you have to start owning the horrible shit he's done if you're going to defend him so much.
Just because someone is a republican, conservative, libertarians' that doesn't agree with the democratic line doesn't equate to Nazi, thats a pretty powerful remark, one which I dispise quite vociferously.
Of course not. There's a whole group of Republicans opposed to Trump at The Lincoln Project who oppose him out of conscience. Under normal circumstances I would disagree with them politically and indeed their past actions helped give rise to groups like the Tea Party and Trumpists. But when they saw what he was doing they chose to put country before party and stand up to him instead of folding like the cowards in Congress. There are also plenty of moderate Republican voters who we are counting on to do the right thing this election and stand for country before party instead of just trying to "own the libs" as too many voters and commenters on message boards and social media use as a guideline.
 
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Thank you.

But the Very Fine People line is an out of context misquote, and had been debunked a Long time ago. If you listen to the whole line

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”
“Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.”

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

So the media just cuts the first part off.. and He has also condemned them many other times.

Biden has his own “fine people” moment to answer for. In 1993, at a Senate Judiciary Committee confirmation hearing for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the issue of refusing a federal charter to the United Daughters of the Confederacy came up. Biden, who opposed the charter, still referred to the commemorative group as “an organization made up of many fine people who continue to display the Confederate flag as a symbol.”

And his infamous "You ain't black if you don't vote democrat" moment.

@Oddish, do good research, read there just a bunch of Never Trumpers that run negative ads against the president. Up to you.
 
Thank you for the lead on the Lincoln Project. As someone who finds Trump (and the racists he seems to be defending) appalling, it might be something that interests me.
Their panels/ zoom discussions are quite decent, too, if the one after the vice presidential debate is anything to go by. (I admit that surprised me.)
 
@Oddish, do good research, read there just a bunch of Never Trumpers that run negative ads against the president. Up to you.
Boy, for someone who claims to be so openminded you're sure Johnny-on-the-Spot to instantly dismiss a group of Republicans who took a conscientious stand against Trump without even seeing what they're saying.
 
Do your research, up to you.. And passed on what I know.. How is that a problem that I get another post directed at me?
If he or she joins them good for them. Sheesh.
 
I choose not to support Trump for his behavior, not his political ideology. And that, it grieves me to say, is quite evident.
 
The problem is that you make and accusation with no arguments or evidence to back it up whatsoever.
Huh? Except for the belittling one's made towards me and my response, I made a few facts posts today. That no one has responded to..
And the lincoln project is a bunch of Republicans that can't stand trump, so called Never Trumpers that run anti Trump ads, also a fact.
Do I have to do a 3 links provided to prove my point? I'm not google, do it yourself.
So?
Whatever..
 
Yes, but you have spent the entirety of this thread and others defending Donald Trump, a man who makes a mockery of the very concept of diversity and would gladly encourage it being reduced from right wing terror groups killing people of color, Jews, Muslims, and LGBTQ people. You can't just casually use IDIC as a shield when it suits you and then in the same breath carry water for a man who abhors the very idea of it and attacks it.



I missed it. I agree that it crosses the line. @Ricky Spanish , please don't say that again.

Here's the issue though. Trump has supported actual Nazis, calling them very fine people. He has refused to condemn white supremacists when offered multiple chances including the most slow-pitch softball question ever on the debate stage. Remember the David Duke guy you were talking about earlier, former Grand Wizard of the KKK? Trump pretended not to know who he was instead of condemning him, despite speaking about him several times before on video. Then there are all the times he has acted like a dictator himself.

So when someone acts like a wannabe Führer, and you defend that person, even if you may not agree with all of those things, it's kind of hard to dissociate support for the man from support for those actions. Because it's a little like saying "But what about all the good things Hitler did?" Now I'm not saying he's Hitler by any means. But he's in the fan club.

You can't just keep saying "I think Trump is a douche nozzle, but I like his tax policy..." as if that gives you coverage for all the horrible things he's done which you have kind of swept under the douche nozzle label, which doesn't quite cut it. At some point you have to start owning the horrible shit he's done if you're going to defend him so much.

Of course not. There's a whole group of Republicans opposed to Trump at The Lincoln Project who oppose him out of conscience. Under normal circumstances I would disagree with them politically and indeed their past actions helped give rise to groups like the Tea Party and Trumpists. But when they saw what he was doing they chose to put country before party and stand up to him instead of folding like the cowards in Congress. There are also plenty of moderate Republican voters who we are counting on to do the right thing this election and stand for country before party instead of just trying to "own the libs" as too many voters and commenters on message boards and social media use as a guideline.

And here's one moderate Republican (though I'm about done with them) who's voting against (again)!
 
The second debate has been oficially cancelled.




do good research, read there just a bunch of Never Trumpers that run negative ads against the president. Up to you.
So this is not meant deprecative?
Do I have to do a 3 links provided to prove my point? I'm not google, do it yourself.
Kind of, yes. Thats how a discussion works.
If you want to change someones mind or educate someone about something, you have to provide unbiased sources.
Imaigne you eat your favorite snack, your coworker comes in and says: "oh, i recently read they put asbestos into *snack name* and then just leaves.
 
Unbiased source?
..." Builds sliders machine to go to alternate world of unbiased media that doesn't exist here"
 
Regardless of my dislike for Trump, my ideology has not changed. I might be anti racist, anti sexist, and morally opposed to a loudmouthed obnoxious CLOWN in the White House...

But I'm still pro capitalist, anti big government, pro life, pro LEGAL immigration, and I think gun control means using both hands to aim your Glock. So I'm not looking forward to the next four years at all.
 
I'm still pro capitalist, anti big government, pro life, pro LEGAL immigration, and I think gun control means using both hands to aim your Glock. So I'm not looking forward to the next four years at all.

Joe Biden is, from a conservative point of view, at worst only pretty mildly left on taxation, business regulation and also immigration, pushing for pretty modest, balanced reforms and approaches. He probably would impose quite a bit of gun control though, that's probably pretty inevitable if there is a Democratic majority in the three branches.
 
Oddish - lots of people are actually a combination of ideologies. There are very few all-out "Liberals" (what people seem to think are "Commie-Pinkos") and relatively few all-out "Conservatives" (many people think that means "Right-Wingnuts").

I'm a gun owner myself but, I believe in responsible gun ownership. I don't believe it letting just anyone have a gun just because they want one. (We might be celebrating John Lennon's 80th birthday...)

I believe Capitalism works - to a point - but, is subject to enormous corruption due to the fact that "Greed is NOT good". We aren't even following the form of Capitalism that was originally conceived about 250 years ago by Adam Smith:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Smith

Modern Capitalism is more concerned about short-term profits and pandering to the stock-market than actually improving people's lives or helping to legitimately grow the economy. Adam Smith himself made it clear that if the average people do not get a fair share of the gains from the economy. This quote is from Book 1 of "The Wealth of Nations":

"Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, cloath and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, clothed and lodged."

That doesn't sound like modern Capitalism - that sounds like...SOCIALISM!!! Oh my...

The current Republican party is NOT the party of small government. They've constantly enlarged the government for decades. DHS is a classic example of going the wrong way. What we needed after 911 was improved communications between the FBI, ATF, DEA, CIA and NSA. What we got was another set of alphabetic letters and another useless (and very screwed up now) bureaucratic agency. While I - mostly - liked G.W. Bush (he's at least a decent human being), it would have been better to merge the FBI, ATF and DEA into one dedicated law enforcement agency and then do the same with the NSA and CIA - then create a dedicated communications path between them to avoid all of the issues that led to that mess.

I do believe that we should enforce proper immigration policies in this country but, we should also treat ALL immigrants like human beings, not animals. The overwhelming majority of "illegal" immigrants are honest people trying to find a better place to live and raise their families. We should NOT be breaking up those families as punishment for violating our borders out of desperation. Part of this problem goes right back up to DHS (and its lapdog ICE).

This has to be the most off the rails thread I've seen in some time. Started off just discussing the debate and now...whoa...
 
I do believe that we should enforce proper immigration policies in this country but, we should also treat ALL immigrants like human beings, not animals. The overwhelming majority of "illegal" immigrants are honest people trying to find a better place to live and raise their families. We should NOT be breaking up those families as punishment for violating our borders out of desperation. Part of this problem goes right back up to DHS (and its lapdog ICE).

Well, with our economy shot to hell and our country the world's biggest Covid hotspot, maybe no one will want to sneak over our borders anymore.
 
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