THE ORVILLE, S2 E12: "SANCTUARY"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Serveaux, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love Premium Member

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    I want Klyden to turn around. I want him to evolve to where he understands just what is happening. I want him to open up about his personal trauma and actually deal with it rather than double down on tradition just because he rejects himself and what happened to him.
     
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  2. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think Klyden's skull is just too thick for any sense to get inside it. Something is going to have to knock some sense into him.
     
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  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    It may have been the first time we've seen Talla commanding the Orville's bridge, but it wouldn't be her first time in command of a bridge. In her first episode she told the story about on her last ship when she punched her captain out and took command in order to secure the cooperation of a rigidly matriarchal alien species who responded to their distress call. And since Talla is supposed to be older and more experienced than Alara, it stands to reason she's been left in command of a bridge on a few prior occasions.
    We can make that claim in hindsight, but at that moment Ed had legitimate reason to believe the child could have been abducted and launching an investigation was warranted. If anything, Bortus made the mistake taking Topa to see the baby. If he hadn't done that, Klyden wouldn't have learned, then wouldn't have reported it to Ed who wouldn't have gotten the ball rolling as it had.
     
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  4. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I know what they intended to do, but they undermined their message by using pre-60s gender stereotypes as the metaphor. That's why it would have been better to either reverse the stereotypes or use a disconnected SF-based metaphor.
     
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  5. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    That describes most Klingo....I mean Moclans. We've certainly seen a few open minded members of the society.
     
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  6. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    getting sick of Klyden, but plus side is that it appears that Bortus is too. They promised not to stab each other, but it's time for that relationship to move on. They've beaten the story to death, we get it that Klyden is stuck in old ways, Bortus has become more open minded. Upset about the child, not going to forgive, but it's done. Just takes up a lot of airtime it seems, and Kylden just isn't that interesting to me at this point...
     
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  7. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That Bortus is prepared to get out and interact with the rest of the crew on social basis has probably gone a long way to help for his views while kl

    they proved the theory - if make a decision and both sides are pissed at you, you've probably made the right one :)
     
  8. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    @ 00:18
     
  9. Astra

    Astra Captain Captain

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    So I have a question. The scene where he turns around and suggests to Talla to hide in the nebula: Who was piloting then? Can you just let go of the controls like that? Are the others sitting next to him as good as he is?

    I watched this episode on Friday in the train, on my to a convention. I was grinning and bopping my head with the song. Even the fight scene does indeed strangely work. (also they confirmed that it was in production the same time as Deadpool so no ripping off)

    With Stargate, I always was a bit bored when it came to Teal'c episodes and them sitting around and talking a lot with nothing happening. But these council scenes and all the actors were really gripping, and watching the diverse audience was a blast.

    Definitely one of their absolutely best ones.
     
  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm really hoping this episode will be the last Moclan one for a while, and that they will focus on developing some other alien races. It just feels like they've gotten a lot of attention for an alien race that isn't actually the focus of the series.
    I did like that we saw a couple more Gelatins in the audience at the Union Council meeting audience, but I was a bit disappointed they were also green. For some reason I was hoping if we saw some others besides Yaphit that they would be different colors.
     
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  11. KennyB

    KennyB Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    With 2 episodes left I hope you are correct as well......from the descriptions it looks like the last 2 episodes are Ed and Kelly centered with some time travel shenanigans........
     
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  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I meant even going into another season, if it does continue. This episode really did feel like a nice stopping point after a lot of build up, so hopefully they will just stop here for a while if the show continues beyond the next two episodes.
    I don't really count personal drama between Bortus and Kylden, and I really think they do need to continue to address their issues.
     
  13. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    It's a smart helm that can take over from the pilot for short periods of time. Either that or Gordon has an artistic license along with a pilot's license.

    Well, they do come in different flavors.
     
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  14. SiddFinch1

    SiddFinch1 Captain Captain

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    Another one.that was.better than.I.thought it would be. Tired of.the whole Moclans.and.Klyden plotline but enjoyed the episode
     
  15. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Great episode- knew it was a Frakes show from the creative camera angles.
    I get the impression Bortas and Klyden are headed for a showdown of some sort.
    Really enjoying that The Union is fraying and has some conflict to it. This isn't your Grampas go-along, get-along UFP.
     
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  16. Velocity

    Velocity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Lots of animus towards Klyden. He was born a female and then his parents had him surgically altered to be a male. He didn't find out about his gender change until much later. It had to be shocking for him. He didn't tell Bortus about his gender change before they had Topa because he was afraid Bortus would leave him. Maybe he is trying to strictly adhere to Moclan ideals because of his fear of being outed as less than Moclan. He seems to have a lot of fears. He seems rather pitiful to me.
     
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  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So...like a repressed homosexual?
     
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  18. Deledrius

    Deledrius Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I really, deeply hope we get word of renewal soon. The show just keeps maintaining this streak of great storytelling, and I want it to continue.

    I disagree. I was surprised and a bit disappointed that things didn't fall apart as drastically as it seemed they were being set up to, but so far the show has earned enough trust from me that I can believe this is setup instead of a "whiffing-it" situation. The Union has bought themselves some time to try more diplomacy, which has a hopeful sense of avoiding the crisis, but that's just going to make it even worse when things do fall apart (and I think it's very likely it will). Also, possibly, they didn't want to leave things in a broken state for the end of the season without a renewal? This way there's the possibility that everything is resolved (eventually) if we never get any more Orville, instead of starting a war we'll have no resolution on.

    Something like Topa discovering what was done to him and distancing himself from the responsible party? I think it's going to get worse for Klyden before it gets better. Much worse. If the Moclans do split from the Union, that's going to give us Klyden leaving the ship and Bortus staying on board. A perfectly poised personal reflection of the political problem. Where will that leave Topa?

    It seemed like the opposite, to me. This is yet another step on what appears to be a plan to test the Union. I'm loving this plot. I loathe suggestions that people make for "Fall of the Federation" storylines, so I love that this show is engaging with the notion of a Utopia instead of taking it as a given, and asking what it takes to preserve one and what kind of shape it would have. I think that's the big difference for me between this and those dark-and-edgy premises I've seen thrown about for a future Trek. It's also really mature storytelling despite the comedy trappings, and I have to congratulate the show for not only tackling them to varying degrees of success but doing so this early in its run. It knows the kinds of assumptions the viewers are bringing and what it can use as a basis to expedite the conversation, while still giving us a nice build-up of the Orville-specific features as necessary.

    I think Klyden is repressing/compensating. My reading of the character's reactions to the Moclan traditions, in this season especially, reflect someone who is very strongly attached to affirming those rules and cultural expectations, because anything less would be an admission of the violation done to Klyden as a child. He has to enforce them and believe in them whole-heartedly, or else risk feeling the guilt of being complicit in passing that abuse onto his own child, despite being a victim himself. These are not easy things to admit or deal with, so he doubles down on every strict rule and expectation because doing so justifies everything done to him and Topa.
     
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  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just noticed personally in this episode that Union Central is right next to the UN Building (and probably includes it?)
    I'm sure most people already noticed that ages ago.

    It was General Assembly building gave it away for me.

    [​IMG]

    The main tower was changed so much I didn't recognize it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  20. Astra

    Astra Captain Captain

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    That's how I read the character as well. A lot of people do hate him, but I don't. It's difficult to overcome ways that are so old. They have to keep trying with him.
     
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