THE ORVILLE, S2 E12: "SANCTUARY"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Serveaux, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    Abraham was great to see. He even made "Star Trek: Insurrection" more watchable by giving Ru'afo an aura of menace that I don't think was at script level (TNG movies go overboard, Borg aside, by trying to make them more sympathetic than antagonistic. Which isn't an easy trick to pull off.)

    I love the cameos, but the storyline still impressed me more. Far more.
     
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  2. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really liked the episode. I think the only reason Bortus is staying with Klyden is he knows he will have to kill him with divorce so he doesn't know what to do because he is progressive enough to not want to murder. I loved the Dolly Parton stuff. Big fan of hers. Having the music play over a space fight both on ship and planet has become a cliche but a cliche that still works. Especially because in the song it has that line "When my ship comes in." which makes a great connection to the Orville.

    Jason
     
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  3. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    Nice to see Marina Sirtis. I was not expecting F. Murray Abraham and Tony Todd in this episode so that was a surprise. This felt very much like quintessential 90s Trek and I Ioved every minute. If this show is cancelled I'll go into a deep state of mourning.
     
  4. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    I suspect Bortus will find a way to separate/"divorce" Klyden without resorting to murder, may just a "you go your way, I'll go mine."
     
  5. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since Seth like to use 20th century music on this show I imagine they will use “go your own way” by Fleetwood Mac for this scene.
     
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  6. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, it was pretty terrific, like most of this season. The writing and the excellent guest performance by Leighton Meester sold the one-hour romance as well as such a thing can be -- she makes the audience (the audience of me, at any rate) fall for her a little with her very first scene, so you know where Gordon's coming from. And of course, it's not just about the romance, but about the implications of its sci-fi context, too.
     
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  7. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Who did he play? I saw his name listed and I was like, they really got Ru'afo to be in an episode of The Orville? Seth really does have a lot of friends in Hollywood.
     
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  8. Amaris

    Amaris Princess of Love Premium Member

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    He played the Union Central Chairman. He was the one at the lectern when Ed and Admiral Halsey were stating their alternatives to Moclan secession.
     
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  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Did not know!

    Man, now I need to watch the episode again.
     
  10. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So is Ru’afo his most memorable character for you? I understand that is his Star Trek connection but he always be Salieri for me.
     
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  11. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm not all that familiar with his other work so yes. I could look up his IMDB to see if I've seen him in anything else (I probably have) but Insurrection is the first thing that comes to mind.
     
  12. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He won an Oscar playing Antonio Salieri in the movie Amadeus. He was also in Scarface.
     
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  13. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Unfortunately I've never seen either of those movies.
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Amadeus is very worth a watch (it actually got me into opera at least a little bit), though I prefer the original theatrical release to the "extended" one they came out with a few years back...paradoxically the latter is the only one on Blu ray, which has forced a choice between "worse quality but better overall film" versus "better quality but slightly worse overall film".
     
  15. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Commodore Commodore

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    Giving this one an 8. Initially felt it was fairly predictable but loved where it went. Who would have thought that Dolly Parton would become the voice of a revolution.

    Also good to see F. Murray Abraham (or as Homer Simpson would say F. MURRAY. ABRAHAM!) do a cameo
     
  16. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I loved it when Admiral Halsey got stern with the Moclan delegate. Victor Garber rules.
     
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  17. theenglish

    theenglish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This series continues to impress me. One of the best series on television right now. I would love to know what Dolly Parton thought of the episode.

    Am I the only one who sees the Mochlans as an allegory for Saudi Arabians. Aside from the discrimination and oppression of women, the debates about whether the Union should even being doing business with them, tonight we also got the debate that the Union should ignore the differences in values because the Mochlans have a resource the Union wants.
     
  18. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, this was not exactly the best episode of Orville, although many of the pieces of it were good. But the Moclans are beginning to remind me more of Odo than Worf in that they obviously didn't think through the concept before going forward. From an SF standpoint, the interesting concept of a single-sex species has been pretty much lost-- if so many females are born, they are not a single-sex species and if they have females why do the males lay eggs? Do females also lay eggs, or are they capable of reproducing like humans? Are males who lay eggs capable of impregnating females? Do males lay eggs and females have live births? How do the concepts of male and female even apply to this species? Ow, my head. And from a storytelling standpoint, with this episode in particular, rather than promoting a more subversive perspective as they usually do, they're not only feeding on pre-60s gender stereotypes, but validating them. In retrospect, if they weren't going to accept or explore the concept, it might have been better to either turn the concept on its head and go with a female-dominant species (which also would have made the egg-laying more sensible) or just go with an arbitrary SF division, like the half-moon people in "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield."

    But the discovery of the Underground and sanctuary colony, followed by the rapid deterioration of relations between the Union and the Moclans, then the debate and ultimate compromise, were done really well. The previous episodes with the Kaylons made it all the more imperative that the Union find a way to keep the Moclans on board-- although, after this, they better be smart and start finding a backup source of weaponry. The Moclans are clearly not on board with Union values and act more like enemies than allies in debate-- although Bortus and the others represent the potential for change-- and there's only so far moral compromise can go. I loved the team of Admirals and the struggle between principle and practicality, and the acknowledgment of other points of view. While it seems like a pretty cut-and-dried situation, the show didn't make it easy with the Moclans painting the situation as child abduction and trafficking.

    And the team of Admirals was pretty amazing. I love Victor Garber and Kelly Hu, and I'm surprised at the gravitas that Ted Danson has attained with age. F Murray Abraham as the president, or whatever, was cool, too. The entire Union Council sequence was both cinematic and stunning with its wide array of alien species-- classic SF on a Golden Age level there. I want to know more about all those alien people.

    In terms of our own people, most everybody got to shine in this one. Ed, despite starting the series as a broken man, is now hobnobbing with the Admiralty and addressing the Union Council. Kelly got to take command and put her career on the line for a matter of principle-- as did Bortus, followed by Talla, who also took command and took the ship into battle with a superior enemy. Gordon got to save the day with his superior piloting skills, which haven't been mentioned in a while. Claire didn't get to do much, but Isaac got to speak, which he hasn't done since the Kaylon skirmish. But where was poor John? I don't think he even showed his face.

    And then there's Dolly Parton. Not exactly my favorite artist, but the bit in the shuttle was cute, as was the dramatic reading in council. But playing "9 to 5" over the space battle was just wrong. I suppose it was better than all those contemporary action trailers that give us slo-mo hyper-violence overlaid with reedy Millennial vocals, but not much.

    And just so we remember that it's The Orville, we had-- what? Ed's moment of misunderstanding Halsey's hint. Dolly Parton. I think that was it. This may have been the most serious episode of Orville to date.
     
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  19. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really liked seeing Marina Sirtis in this episode and really enjoyed the story tying back to alot of season episodes I've been watching on dvd.I really like Admiral Halsey and thought it was a good story. I hope will renew it for season it's a good show!:bolian:
     
  20. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    If you watch the Youtube channel cinemaSins, you know you're turning into them. ;-)

    "I have so many questions!"


    The neat thing about Marina's appearance is that it can be a regular role; we'll likely see Topa in school again. Or have the teacher come by to talk to Bortus and Klyden.

    I can't image the relationship lasting; they have become to radically different. This isn't mere differences that can be worked out, but fundamental disagreements.


    And I remember Trek fans always going on about how they loved the Klingons episode of the various series, but I complained there were too many and they weren't done that well (mostly). Now it's the other way around: these Moclan episode are done well (mostly) but fans are complaining there are too many Moclan episodes.
     
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