The One Thing You Could Change, TOS Edition...

[ZapBrannigan]

I would have liked to change the episode so Noel changed her mind about Kirk in the end. That when he was all lovey-dovey and clinging to her under the power of Adam's machine, it put her off him in a romantic sense. And then she could just be a normal member of the crew and not one of the many women to fall under Kirk's spell.

That is what happened, sort of. Remember when she pushed him away, shouting "Dr. Adams did this to you!"

And anyway, in all these years I have never thought that Helen fell for Kirk "romantically." I thought she was treating him exactly the way he treated the attractive, single women he flirted with: as a chance for short-term companionship and recreation.

 

[Commishsleer]

That is what happened, sort of. Remember when she pushed him away, shouting "Dr. Adams did this to you!"

And anyway, in all these years I have never thought that Helen fell for Kirk "romantically." I thought she was treating him exactly the way he treated the attractive, single women he flirted with: as a chance for short-term companionship and recreation.

I thought Helen had actually wanted Kirk to 'romance' her at the Christmas party.I suppose we could interpret it as just her teasing him but I'm not clear what actually happened at the Christmas Party. Obviously Kirk was embarrassed about what happened.
Did he actually take her to his room but she called it off when he umm said he didn't care that much about her? Or was that her fantasy? I thought her fantasy was that he did care for her. Even if Adams exaggerated it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I thought Helen had actually wanted Kirk to 'romance' her at the Christmas party.I suppose we could interpret it as just her teasing him but I'm not clear what actually happened at the Christmas Party. Obviously Kirk was embarrassed about what happened.
Did he actually take her to his room but she called it off when he umm said he didn't care that much about her? Or was that her fantasy? I thought her fantasy was that he did care for her. Even if Adams exaggerated it.

What really happened was they danced and talked at the Christmas party. The visit to his quarters was all dreamland. She says so in the dialogue.

And I love the fact that they changed her hair for the dream-flashback.

 

[Commishsleer]

What really happened was they danced and talked at the Christmas party. The visit to his quarters was all dreamland. She says so in the dialogue.

And I love the fact that they changed her hair for the dream-flashback.

Why was Kirk so angry at McCoy then?

 

[Pauln6]

Why was Kirk so angry at McCoy then?

Maybe Kirk became aware of office gossip about the encounter and his lapse annoyed him. He's very often dismissive of Rand because he's attracted to her, which McCoy spots straight away in Corbomite. It's likely he's just over-compensating.

 

[Poltargyst]

Actually I got nothing against the Helen Noel character. She's very attractive. She's a doctor. She didn't cling onto Kirk to save her. She fought her way out and got the power out so they could escape. Whats wrong with that?
She has an indecently short skirt. But that can be forgiven. I mean Uhura also had a very short skirt on occasion.

Yes, thank you. Maybe this description of Noel will be better accepted coming from you.

Just be careful about

She's very attractive.

People around here don't like it when you compliment her looks.

 

[T'Bonz]

Who in this thread said that?

In the past, my dear. I'm the veteran of many Noel threads.

* *

But when a moderator joins in these attacks, it's over. You've lost.

It's official now: we are all to dislike the Noel character.

Actually, as a WOMAN, not a moderator. And frankly, I don't give two fucks if you like her or not. I only get tired of the neverending oohs and ahhhhs over her. She's not all that and a bag of chips.

* *

People around here don't like it when you compliment her looks.

No, it's the WAY in which it's often done.

I'm long ago Helen Noel-ed out. I curse the casting director who hired her.

 

[Hofner]

The problem with the character of Helen Noel is that she's been leered at and drooled over too much in the TOS forum over the years, I remember at least two and maybe more Helen Noel worship threads in the past. Not all of the comments on her are rude but the rude sort really overshadows the whole thing.

She's not the only woman of Star Trek to get lewd comments but Noel sticks out as having the most by far.

It's like that old joke about when a 14 year old boy's mother finds his stash of Playboy magazines, she's not going to beleive him one bit when he claims he got them only to read the articles. No matter how you express your admiration for Helen Noel, you're going to be guilty.

The character of Noel is like the third rail of TOS discussion, you touch it at your own risk.

Robert

 

[Pauln6]

Any discussion of women in TOS at some point devolves into comments about how hot they are and whether a different character was hotter. As someone who grew up watching Trek at the same time as Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, and Blake's 7, I was more often left wondering why the women didn't get to beam down more often and why they didn't shoot more stuff.

 

[Commishsleer]

Yes, thank you. Maybe this description of Noel will be better accepted coming from you.

Just be careful about


People around here don't like it when you compliment her looks.

While I do think Noel is pretty, there were plenty of pretty women in TOS. I don't think we need to go on and on and on about it though.
If I were to rate the most impressive guest women in TOS, she wouldn't be in my top 5.
I suppose they would be Edith Keeler, Dr Dehner, Number One, Romulan Commander, Miranda Jones.

 

[Henoch]

I'm fond of Thalassa.

 

[Pauln6]

While I do think Noel is pretty, there were plenty of pretty women in TOS. I don't think we need to go on and on and on about it though.
If I were to rate the most impressive guest women in TOS, she wouldn't be in my top 5.
I suppose they would be Edith Keeler, Dr Dehner, Number One, Romulan Commander, Miranda Jones.

Miranda is probably my favourite. If Betazoids had been as cool as her I would have been a lot happier. She would have been fantastic as a recurring character.

 

[Farscape One]

Season 3 had a lot of faults, but one thing it did have a lot of was strong women characters.

"ELAAN OF TROYIUS" - Elaan
"THE ENTERPRISE INCIDENT" - Romulan Commander
"IS THERE IN TRUTH NO BEAUTY?" - Miranda Jones
"FOR THE WORLD..." - Natira
"WINK OF AN EYE" - Deela
"THE MARK OF GIDEON" - Odona
"THE CLOUD MINDERS" - Vanna

In one form or another, they were strong women. Either as leaders of their people or, in the case of Odona, a strong will to be ready to be the Typhoid Mary of your planet.

 

[cooleddie74]

Zarabeth was also a strong woman considering she'd been exiled 5,000 years into her own past and had to live in an Arctic environment. She stayed alive both before and for some undisclosed amount of time after Spock and McCoy arrived.

 

[Farscape One]

Very true. Though I hesitated to include her due to her being scantily clad and it might come across as just that.

 

[Pauln6]

I see Ilia, who now has a reason to be on the bridge and has her own chair, i.e. navigator, contributing on occasion to move the plot along, "Captain, I sense...<fill in the blank>." Two for the price of one.

Apart from the Child, Ilia didn't feature prominently in the Phase II outline scripts but her character outline suggested that she would become the ship's unofficial counselor. Given how open Deltans are I can see her fulfilling that role quite organically. Probing other people's thoughts and emotions without prior permission feels unethical but I think Deltans were supposed to be able to project images in other's minds so more wriggle room for story usage rather than plot busting.

 

[Henoch]

ILIA: My oath of celibacy is on record Captain. May I assume my duties?

Maybe she can only read minds in the act of sex, and thus it is covered under her oath of celibacy, paragraph 2?

Apart from the Child, Ilia didn't feature prominently in the Phase II outline scripts but her character outline suggested that she would become the ship's unofficial counselor. Given how open Deltans are I can see her fulfilling that role quite organically. Probing other people's thoughts and emotions without prior permission feels unethical but I think Deltans were supposed to be able to project images in other's minds so more wriggle room for story usage rather than plot busting.

(I imagine that she would be a very popular counselor.)

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe she can only read minds in the act of sex, and thus it is covered under her oath of celibacy, paragraph 2?

(I imagine that she would be a very popular counselor.)

The TWOK novelisation does an excellent job of filling in the blanks of Deltan psychology and physiology, some of which (a psychic link to lovers) did port across to Troi.

The Oath of Celibacy is required because there is a psychic element to their love-making that can unbalance a human mind. Another possibility is that lengthy exposure to high doses of pheromones leads to chemical imbalances in the brains (addiction issues, depression etc). We know that hormone imbalances can affect mood and mental well-being so there is some scientific merit to the explanation.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Keep Number One. (Not necessarily in Spock's job though). The female test audiences hated her for sickeningly sexist reasons, calling her "cold" and "masculine." I like the female characters we did end up getting, but would like to see them coexist with the "masculine' Number One.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Keep Number One. (Not necessarily in Spock's job though). The female test audiences hated her for sickeningly sexist reasons, calling her "cold" and "masculine." I like the female characters we did end up getting, but would like to see them coexist with the "masculine' Number One.

That's one of those stories that has to be taken with a pinch of salt, seeing as how there is also the story of the audiences and studios liking the idea of Number One but having issues with the actress (Roddenberry's piece on the side at the time). But yeah, I loved the character of Number One and it's a shame we never saw her in the series proper.