I don't thnik you fully understand- the universe was 'rebooted' by Nero's trip backward in time- the Spock that came back in time came from the 'original' Trek timeline. He was Spock we know and love from TNG/TOS.
The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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I don't thnik you fully understand- the universe was 'rebooted' by Nero's trip backward in time- the Spock that came back in time came from the 'original' Trek timeline. He was Spock we know and love from TNG/TOS.
(I hate my laptop). Had a somewhat lengthy post inspired by my second viewing of the film (just got back) and I accidentally hit a key that sent me back several "pages" and wiped out my text. I'm not re-writing it again--it's late.
Short version: It's a fun movie--just as much fun the second time around. I picked up more visual nods to the original (hadn't noticed his cross-legged pose in "the chair" at the end before, for example).
A "dumb" movie? Perhaps--not every film can be Kirosawa, Bergman or Fellini. But the fact is, most movies are "dumb". If we were to nitpick every film the way Trek fans nitpick Trek movies and TV programmes (and speaking of nits to pick, why didn't Sulu and Kirk simply faint from lack of air on the platform above Vulcan?--not that I care one whit that they didn't, but it is a gripe I've yet to read or hear anywhere), an incredibly small number would survive unscathed. This movie is no more or less "dumb" than the rest of the Trek films and, really, why would I realistically expect any different?
Is it a flawless movie? Of course not. Nothing about Trek in all its incarnations is "flawless". But, and I know I'm repeating myself, it's fun. Oh, I went through a phase (late teens to late 20s) when I became rather demanding of my "entertainments". With a few exceptions borne of nostalgia (Trek being one of them), I only watched "serious" movies, only read "serious" literature and, essentially, demanded that all my entertainment also be intellectually challenging and rewarding (and being condescending to those who did not share my outlook). But along the way, I eventually discovered I wasn't having nearly as much fun as I should from my entertainment. I started to relax and be less critical of every single thing I came across. And I started having more fun.
I still appreciate "serious" films and literature, but I don't deny myself the pleasures of lighter fare. And Trek has always been "lighter fare". As such, I just sit back and enjoy the ride. (leaves me with enough energy to spend on actual "heavier fare") I know my approach isn't a universal one. But it is a fun one.
Short version: It's a fun movie--just as much fun the second time around. I picked up more visual nods to the original (hadn't noticed his cross-legged pose in "the chair" at the end before, for example).
A "dumb" movie? Perhaps--not every film can be Kirosawa, Bergman or Fellini. But the fact is, most movies are "dumb". If we were to nitpick every film the way Trek fans nitpick Trek movies and TV programmes (and speaking of nits to pick, why didn't Sulu and Kirk simply faint from lack of air on the platform above Vulcan?--not that I care one whit that they didn't, but it is a gripe I've yet to read or hear anywhere), an incredibly small number would survive unscathed. This movie is no more or less "dumb" than the rest of the Trek films and, really, why would I realistically expect any different?
Is it a flawless movie? Of course not. Nothing about Trek in all its incarnations is "flawless". But, and I know I'm repeating myself, it's fun. Oh, I went through a phase (late teens to late 20s) when I became rather demanding of my "entertainments". With a few exceptions borne of nostalgia (Trek being one of them), I only watched "serious" movies, only read "serious" literature and, essentially, demanded that all my entertainment also be intellectually challenging and rewarding (and being condescending to those who did not share my outlook). But along the way, I eventually discovered I wasn't having nearly as much fun as I should from my entertainment. I started to relax and be less critical of every single thing I came across. And I started having more fun.
I still appreciate "serious" films and literature, but I don't deny myself the pleasures of lighter fare. And Trek has always been "lighter fare". As such, I just sit back and enjoy the ride. (leaves me with enough energy to spend on actual "heavier fare") I know my approach isn't a universal one. But it is a fun one.
I think for various reasons people want to hate this movie, that is their right.
Anyway, I voted excellent and overall on a grading scale I would give it an A-. For me it got back to why I love Trek so much, and that is the characters. In fact, the only reason I give it an A- instead of an A+ is because I felt there should have been more of these classic character moments in the film, but the ones that were in there were excellent.
For me I can take or leave the action scenes, its not really my thing, but I understand why they were in the movie. They were done extremely well, I was on the edge of my seat most of the time. The drill platform scene especially is awesome.
As for continuity and plot holes, in my opinion any Trek fan complaining about this is highly hypocritical, as they are just about as much a Trek tradition as "redshirts" are. They did a good enough job of explaining things and in no way did it interfere with my enjoyment of the movie. In fact, the only real nitpick I would have is how its a little far-fetched that Kirk would be made a captain by the end of the movie, but again, it was not enough to ruin things for me.
In the end I immediately wanted to see more and I immediately wanted to see sequels with this cast/crew which to me is the best barometer of how well I liked a movie.
Anyway, I voted excellent and overall on a grading scale I would give it an A-. For me it got back to why I love Trek so much, and that is the characters. In fact, the only reason I give it an A- instead of an A+ is because I felt there should have been more of these classic character moments in the film, but the ones that were in there were excellent.
For me I can take or leave the action scenes, its not really my thing, but I understand why they were in the movie. They were done extremely well, I was on the edge of my seat most of the time. The drill platform scene especially is awesome.
As for continuity and plot holes, in my opinion any Trek fan complaining about this is highly hypocritical, as they are just about as much a Trek tradition as "redshirts" are. They did a good enough job of explaining things and in no way did it interfere with my enjoyment of the movie. In fact, the only real nitpick I would have is how its a little far-fetched that Kirk would be made a captain by the end of the movie, but again, it was not enough to ruin things for me.
In the end I immediately wanted to see more and I immediately wanted to see sequels with this cast/crew which to me is the best barometer of how well I liked a movie.
I've finally voted after three viewings of the movie and I've voted "Excellent".
It's funny because if I had voted after the very first viewing, it would have been "Above average".
I went to see the movie somewhat unspoiled (save from the trailers but that's all) so I was persuaded that the movie was about the young members of the crew (Kirk, Spock, McKoy) meeting and having their first adventures. I had no idea about the alternate universe and I was awfully slow on the uptake. Uhura had to spell it for me, you know. And even knowing this, until very late in the movie, I was persuaded that there would be a reset at least for Vulcan and for Amanda so I didn't feel their loss as keenly as I should have. I had a very Vulcan emotional distance about all this. You see, Vulcan and Amanda were there in TOS so for me there WAS going to be a reset. Same for Sulu, I was sure he wasn't going to be killed on the plateform because he was part of the crew in TOS! Boy, any member of the crew could have been killed! (and isn't that interesting for the next movie?)
So when I got out of the theater, I was mulling over all this, trying to decide if I liked the idea of rebooting the series that way or not. I guess I was mourning over the original canon and time line, until I realised that they still existed somewhere and that this was about giving ST a second chance.
Then I was struck by the audacity of doing something like this knowing it was going to piss off a good deal of long-time ST fans.
Sure the movie is flawed, I still have things that annoy me after 3 viewings but then which movie isn't flawed? What counts is my overall impression: I love that movie in spite of its flaws and shortcomings because this IS Star Trek. What was there at the beginning is still there, albeit a little different.
I'm watching TOS again after 20 years (bought the remastered DVDs) and I realise how much this is the same spirit. I have these strange flashes where I picture Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto or Karl Urban in some scenes instead of the original actors. This is how spot on the cast of the movie is for me.
Some changes have been made for Kirk and Spock's characters and it's all the more obvious when you re-watch the original show but it only make things more interesting for me. I can't wait to see how they are going to interact in the next movie now that they are past their "I hate your guts" phase.
The changes in Spock are the more interesting for me because he has always been my fav character. In TOS he was ashamed of his human origins ("Naked Time") and it took him decades to accept this heritage and live with it. NuSpock* isn't ashamed of his human side and it's obvious even as a kid. There's a "I love my human mother" factor that didn't seem to be enough in TOS for Prime Spock to be more acknowledging of his human side when he was young. You can see that again with the Vulcan council "fuck off" scene.
It becomes even more interesting when Sarek's attitude, which was previously close to Prime Sarek's, changes after Vulcan's destruction and Amanda's death. I would have never dreamed to hear him say to Spock that he's glad he's got him (widly paraphrasing here, bad memory and movie dubbed in French) and that he married Amanda because he loved her (that scene is wonderful). He even encourages Spock to use his emotions! That is going to change Spock a great deal and it can already be seen in the transporter room with Uhura (it took me 3 viewings to understand and accept that scene).
What I can't understand are the nitpiks about nuSpock being too emotional. IMO if Prime Spock had lost both his planet and his mother in TOS, even being ashamed of his human emotions, he would have reacted the same way. I've not re-watched half of the first TOS season and already I've noted that Prime Spock shows more emotion than I remembered.
I've been a fan for almost 20 years and I love the new cast, I love what they've done with the characters while still loving TOS.
I can't wait for the next movie!
*You know "nu" means "naked" in French? So each time I read "nuSpock" here...
It's funny because if I had voted after the very first viewing, it would have been "Above average".
I went to see the movie somewhat unspoiled (save from the trailers but that's all) so I was persuaded that the movie was about the young members of the crew (Kirk, Spock, McKoy) meeting and having their first adventures. I had no idea about the alternate universe and I was awfully slow on the uptake. Uhura had to spell it for me, you know. And even knowing this, until very late in the movie, I was persuaded that there would be a reset at least for Vulcan and for Amanda so I didn't feel their loss as keenly as I should have. I had a very Vulcan emotional distance about all this. You see, Vulcan and Amanda were there in TOS so for me there WAS going to be a reset. Same for Sulu, I was sure he wasn't going to be killed on the plateform because he was part of the crew in TOS! Boy, any member of the crew could have been killed! (and isn't that interesting for the next movie?)
So when I got out of the theater, I was mulling over all this, trying to decide if I liked the idea of rebooting the series that way or not. I guess I was mourning over the original canon and time line, until I realised that they still existed somewhere and that this was about giving ST a second chance.
Then I was struck by the audacity of doing something like this knowing it was going to piss off a good deal of long-time ST fans.
Sure the movie is flawed, I still have things that annoy me after 3 viewings but then which movie isn't flawed? What counts is my overall impression: I love that movie in spite of its flaws and shortcomings because this IS Star Trek. What was there at the beginning is still there, albeit a little different.
I'm watching TOS again after 20 years (bought the remastered DVDs) and I realise how much this is the same spirit. I have these strange flashes where I picture Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto or Karl Urban in some scenes instead of the original actors. This is how spot on the cast of the movie is for me.
Some changes have been made for Kirk and Spock's characters and it's all the more obvious when you re-watch the original show but it only make things more interesting for me. I can't wait to see how they are going to interact in the next movie now that they are past their "I hate your guts" phase.
The changes in Spock are the more interesting for me because he has always been my fav character. In TOS he was ashamed of his human origins ("Naked Time") and it took him decades to accept this heritage and live with it. NuSpock* isn't ashamed of his human side and it's obvious even as a kid. There's a "I love my human mother" factor that didn't seem to be enough in TOS for Prime Spock to be more acknowledging of his human side when he was young. You can see that again with the Vulcan council "fuck off" scene.
It becomes even more interesting when Sarek's attitude, which was previously close to Prime Sarek's, changes after Vulcan's destruction and Amanda's death. I would have never dreamed to hear him say to Spock that he's glad he's got him (widly paraphrasing here, bad memory and movie dubbed in French) and that he married Amanda because he loved her (that scene is wonderful). He even encourages Spock to use his emotions!
That is going to change Spock a great deal and it can already be seen in the transporter room with Uhura (it took me 3 viewings to understand and accept that scene).What I can't understand are the nitpiks about nuSpock being too emotional. IMO if Prime Spock had lost both his planet and his mother in TOS, even being ashamed of his human emotions, he would have reacted the same way. I've not re-watched half of the first TOS season and already I've noted that Prime Spock shows more emotion than I remembered.
I've been a fan for almost 20 years and I love the new cast, I love what they've done with the characters while still loving TOS.
I can't wait for the next movie!
*You know "nu" means "naked" in French? So each time I read "nuSpock" here...
The best way to look at it - it's a spin off in an alternate reality. For some reason spin off doesn't sound as terrifying as reboot to some people. And it's a little more accurate
It becomes even more interesting when Sarek's attitude, which was previously close to Prime Sarek's, changes after Vulcan's destruction and Amanda's death. I would have never dreamed to hear him say to Spock that he's glad he's got him (widly paraphrasing here, bad memory and movie dubbed in French) and that he married Amanda because he loved her (that scene is wonderful). He even encourages Spock to use his emotions!
Bingo!
I think more people need to pick up on that. It's vital to Spock being as "different" as he is.
Oh, I didn't realize that.
In fact they are mangers, doncha know.
*You know "nu" means "naked" in French? So each time I read "nuSpock" here...
Yeoman nuRand to the bridge!
*You know "nu" means "naked" in French? So each time I read "nuSpock" here...
Yeoman nuRand to the bridge!
so this is gonna be Nude Trek, right? no wonder it's making so much money. people catch on fast.
I went to see the movie somewhat unspoiled (save from the trailers but that's all) so I was persuaded that the movie was about the young members of the crew (Kirk, Spock, McKoy) meeting and having their first adventures. I had no idea about the alternate universe and I was awfully slow on the uptake. Uhura had to spell it for me, you know. And even knowing this, until very late in the movie, I was persuaded that there would be a reset at least for Vulcan and for Amanda so I didn't feel their loss as keenly as I should have. I had a very Vulcan emotional distance about all this. You see, Vulcan and Amanda were there in TOS so for me there WAS going to be a reset. Same for Sulu, I was sure he wasn't going to be killed on the plateform because he was part of the crew in TOS! Boy, any member of the crew could have been killed! (and isn't that interesting for the next movie?)
So when I got out of the theater, I was mulling over all this, trying to decide if I liked the idea of rebooting the series that way or not. I guess I was mourning over the original canon and time line, until I realised that they still existed somewhere and that this was about giving ST a second chance.
Then I was struck by the audacity of doing something like this knowing it was going to piss off a good deal of long-time ST fans.
Sure the movie is flawed, I still have things that annoy me after 3 viewings but then which movie isn't flawed? What counts is my overall impression: I love that movie in spite of its flaws and shortcomings because this IS Star Trek. What was there at the beginning is still there, albeit a little different.
I'm watching TOS again after 20 years (bought the remastered DVDs) and I realise how much this is the same spirit. I have these strange flashes where I picture Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto or Karl Urban in some scenes instead of the original actors. This is how spot on the cast of the movie is for me.
Some changes have been made for Kirk and Spock's characters and it's all the more obvious when you re-watch the original show but it only make things more interesting for me. I can't wait to see how they are going to interact in the next movie now that they are past their "I hate your guts" phase.
The changes in Spock are the more interesting for me because he has always been my fav character. In TOS he was ashamed of his human origins ("Naked Time") and it took him decades to accept this heritage and live with it. NuSpock* isn't ashamed of his human side and it's obvious even as a kid. There's a "I love my human mother" factor that didn't seem to be enough in TOS for Prime Spock to be more acknowledging of his human side when he was young. You can see that again with the Vulcan council "fuck off" scene.
It becomes even more interesting when Sarek's attitude, which was previously close to Prime Sarek's, changes after Vulcan's destruction and Amanda's death. I would have never dreamed to hear him say to Spock that he's glad he's got him (widly paraphrasing here, bad memory and movie dubbed in French) and that he married Amanda because he loved her (that scene is wonderful). He even encourages Spock to use his emotions!
What I can't understand are the nitpiks about nuSpock being too emotional. IMO if Prime Spock had lost both his planet and his mother in TOS, even being ashamed of his human emotions, he would have reacted the same way. I've not re-watched half of the first TOS season and already I've noted that Prime Spock shows more emotion than I remembered.
I've been a fan for almost 20 years and I love the new cast, I love what they've done with the characters while still loving TOS.
I can't wait for the next movie!
This is a great post, and pretty much sums up why I loved the film so much. I'll be seeing it for the 3rd time this weekend!
I voted 'Excellent', by the way!
The market isn't the same anymore. I don't think such a series would last very long solely on the success of this movie. And I have strong doubt that the entire cast would sign for a serie anyway. But a movie serie is definitely a possibility. I would say at least 2 more easily.
And even knowing this, until very late in the movie, I was persuaded that there would be a reset at least for Vulcan and for Amanda so I didn't feel their loss as keenly as I should have. I had a very Vulcan emotional distance about all this. You see, Vulcan and Amanda were there in TOS so for me there WAS going to be a reset. Same for Sulu, I was sure he wasn't going to be killed on the plateform because he was part of the crew in TOS! Boy, any member of the crew could have been killed! (and isn't that interesting for the next movie?)
I think the lack of a reset is one of main things that makes this movie strong, and heralds a great new series. Like you say, anyone could be in danger - and I was very worried for Sulu during the fight on the drill!
*You know "nu" means "naked" in French? So each time I read "nuSpock" here...
Yeoman nuRand to the bridge!
so this is gonna be Nude Trek, right? no wonder it's making so much money. people catch on fast.
Can't wait for the next movie!
That question was raised once, that I can recall, a couple of months ago:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=84723
At least until the nu-verse analog of Chakotay comes along. Then all bets are off.
I stand corrected. Still didn't bother me.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Indeed.
But at the end they toy with us and the fear of the Reset Button...
Kirk orders Sulu to 'get us home' just as the Enterprise starts to fall towards the black hole (of which we know that it could lead to the original universe).
Then, after the core-reactors have exploded, we see each of the the main cast in a close-up, slightly blurred out by all the violent shaking, the Enterprise is completely engulfed in the shockwave... then we see nothing but the blue glowing explosion... and we could begin to start to wonder whether there will be a reset after all... but then the Enterprise emerges un-re-rebooted
and we get another set of close-ups of the bridge-crew, all smiling ('look we are still here' 
)
A
Amaris
Guest
^ That J.J. is such a tease. 
J.
J.
Depends on how it is handled.
If Stargate can go on and on (and on) like Star Trek used to do, there's no reason why "nuTrek" can't, IMO.
The same ones who brought you the movie in every facet, or people of the same caliber and smarts, have to be involved though.
Fringe gets 11-15 million people a week. Why couldn't a reimagined Star Trek?
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