The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 30, 2009.


Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    707 vote(s)
  2. Above Average

    213 vote(s)
  3. Average

    84 vote(s)
  4. Below Average

    46 vote(s)
  5. Poor

    77 vote(s)
  1. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Yep, ever since ST:TMP in December 1979, a film which I loved, despite my lack of TOS knowledge - and an opinion for which many diehard fans of 60s TOS spent the next three years chastising me for liking such "an abomination". I then went on to run their fan club for over a decade.

    Majel Barrett presumably read the script before agreeing to record her lines. I take that participation as her approval.
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Jun 30, 2004
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Because he was also a damed good Starfleet science officer in his day, who volunteered for a suicide mission to attempt to save an estranged world.
  3. AJBryant

    AJBryant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 13, 2006
    A personal take on... that movie

    So. Um....


    Given the story we have in the film there is -- or will be -- no Journey to Babel. No Amok Time. No Kolinar for Spock. No Balance of Terror. No Menagerie. No Shore Leave. No Where No Man Has Gone Before. No This Side of Paradise.

    Heck, to think of it, Spock never comes back after Wrath of Khan as there's no Vulcan temple for a priestess to perform the refusion of his katra and body. Come to think of it, given this story line, Kirk would never have hooked up with Carol Marcus. No David, then. And no "successful" Genesis test, as it was DAVID'S choice to use protomatter that made it... um... work.

    So how come we all already know about Romulan ships? Kirk recognizes it and knows who they were. And Uhura already knows all three (!) Romulan dialects.

    Doctors do not attend the academy. They aren't line officers. Ensigns are not 17. They are graduates of the academy, and 21 at least.

    Spock and Uhura? The hell?

    Could the camera have been any more frenetic in its moves and angles? Jeezus, could we have had more lens flare?

    So the Enterprise doesn't have a brig, Spock has to actually eject Kirk off onto an ice planet? Since when is marooning people to their possible deaths part of Starfleet regs? Ah, I know. It was necessary for the plot. Kirk meeting "Spock Prime" *that way* was really contrived. "How did you find me?" -- REALLY. (And Vulcan has an *ice* moon that has an atmosphere?)

    Promoting a third-year cadet to first officer? And then captain? The hell? Oh, I guess there's no Obsession, either. No Private Little War.

    And... hey. Afterthought. You mean someone can't fire a photon torpedo or something at that drill? Vulcan has NO planetary defenses?

    Yeah, I'm kinda happy there was no Magic Reset Button -- but... damn. Losing Vulcan was a hell of a change to make for the sake of an "ooh ahh" factor. It totally overshadows the Enterprise redesign issues (I'm not a big fan of the James Cameron's Titanic engine room take on the Enterprise interiors. Yuck. Why are there big glass tubes full of water running around in engineering?

    Yeah, it was a good movie.

    But it wasn't MY Star Trek. Among other things, I really missed my "Trek music" cues. The beauty shots of the Enterprise *screamed* for them. Will I see it again? Yeah, probably. I will buy the DVD, of course.

    But... damn. I'm really not happy.
  4. Jim Steele

    Jim Steele Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 2, 2004
    I honestly thought it was rather mediocre and I can't understand what all the fuss is about. Still, I'm impressed that they had the balls to damn canon and do something new. What's disappointing is that they had to justify it with technobabble (three times), and even though they've established that this is a clean slate it didn't take them very long to start making the same mistakes that bogged down the old franchise.

    Also - red matter? Fuck off Abrams.

    There were many bits that I liked, the cast were for the most part fantastic despite Eric Bana (who manages to make a shitter villain than Shinzon). I loved the art direction apart from the Romulan ship's interior, which was one of the stupidest designs I've ever seen (guard rails? the empire cutting corners now?). Chris Pine really evoked Kirk of old, Spock and Scotty were both brilliant and Karl Urban totally nailed McCoy. In fact I think Urban's performance was the best thing about the whole flick.

    At best, this film is at least a good launching point for a new Star Trek. I hope someone (other than JJ) comes along and pulls a wrath of khan out of the bag. It made me excited for the future, even though this film in itself was a bit shit. A messianic resurrection of a dead franchise, inspiring awe and erections across the earth? Um, no. I don't get that at all. But it could have been a lot worse and I genuinely think that it can only get better from here.
  5. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Jul 12, 2001
    Victoria, Australia
    Indeed. Very much an act of unification - a Vulcan legend sacrificing himself for his wayward cousins.
  6. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 5, 2005
    Well here I am with my review.

    Tonight I had the second opportunity to see this film at the Imax theater in Noblesville, Indiana. It was a 9:30 show, I would say was easily 95% sold out. The line was MASSIVE. Literally. The diversity was all over the place. Old & Young and everything in between. Black and white and everything in betwen. Trekkie and Non-Trekkie and everything in between. A few costumed people. Seriously, some of them are cringeworthy as they were simply colored shorts with fabric insignias, however, it doesn't take from the heart of the devotion. So that was cool.

    To the movie itself. I was prepared for the worst, hoped for the best. Luckily, I got the latter. In a way, as Robert Altman put it, this is "Star Trek's Greatest Hits" infused with brand new work, which for a reboot is just fine. It is funny, it is thrilling, it is breathtaking, it is riveting, it is emotional at times (there is a tear jerker several minutes into the film,) and to me, this film does have heart. If I had any fear, is that we would get Transformers type dialog and maturity. Funnily enough, we did get some technobabble so the film isn't "dumbed down" as some think it would be. Now, I won't say that the film rests with the "most brilliant" of the franchise, but it is my opinion that this film is superior to quite a bit of Trek from the past 20 years or so, and even some original series episodes. The story is pretty cool.

    The SFX were top-notch, no questions asked. The music was very good as well. Not Horner level, but still very good on its own.

    Some thing that were memorable for me?

    Again, the entire first scene before the title card is a tear jerker and I thought was well done.

    The character moments between Spock and his parents, and the whole thing Spock had to go through on Vulcan from the bullies. An absolute homage to The Animated Series and good to see this "Canonised." I also enjoyed the "Cup Classrooms," which of course were homages to Spock's training session on Vulcan at the beginning of "The Voyage Home."

    I like Scotty, someone who I thought I wouldn't like. He is a bit more cheerful rather than a goofball I thought, though there is only one "slapstick" scene with him falling out of the water tank. The scene with him beaming Spock and Kirk to the Narada was great.

    The Kobyashi Maru Test. There were three levels to this that I thought were very good.
    1.) Kirk's whole approach to the now modified test was priceless.
    2.) Secondly, the Klingon Vessels were top-notch. They were spot on with the movie-version of the Klingon Battle Cruisers and I was impressed with that.
    3.) The twist at the end where we find out that it was Spock's test.

    Leonard Nimoy was very good. For some reason, I feel that they got him more right for his character than even the last few Star Trek movies. He wasn't really wooden or stale and devoid of some of his human traits in his personality. He was still Spock, but a little more upbeat in his delivery. He was confident with his emotions If I had to say one thing though, perhaps there could have been a better way to handle how Kirk and Spock Prime met. Perhaps have him detecting Kirk on Delta Vega from the Jellyfish

    Humor. They got the humor right too. Not too silly, but not flat either. To me, humor was what could make Star Trek enjoyable, and this certainly was a key ingredient here. It wasn't "gloomy" and everyone was stiff. People were serious when they needed to be, but they were witty as well. It was.. "fun."

    Overall, the characters were pretty well nailed IMHO. They weren't mimicing the original actors, but they took the hearts of the characters and made them their own, and made it work. This is how I think they "nailed them."

    Bruce Greenwood was meant to be a Starfleet captain, plain and simple.
    Chris Pine is absolutely a star and I think they made the best choice here
    Zachary Quinto was very good too, better than I thought he would be.
    Zoe Saldana was one of the main attractions, surprisingly. She was very likable and very good. I do hope she is given more to do in the next film, however.
    John Cho, surprisingly, the one given the least to do, when ironically being one of the most recognizable stars of the cast.
    Anton Yelchin - I was also glad to see that they gave Chekov some substance, though, he is sort of the Wesley Crusher of the group (but not in the bad way.) Strangely enough, I bought his accent. He's still young, perhaps being around more people with North American accents will have an influence on him in future installments and make him a little more intelligable. Yelchin was superb regardless.
    Erin Bana - He is good, but his character seemed more or less "Just there to be the bad guy." There is more substance to him in the original cuts I'm sure. I am not sure how about taking out his Ruha Pentha scenes. Would be nice to see some Klingons!
    Leonard Nimoy is Leonard Nimoy!
    Ben Cross - Probably the weakest of the group. I'm sure he's good as an actor, but not sure if he was right for Sarek. He's not horrible, but thought there could have been someone better out there. Maybe, maybe not.
    Winona Ryder and Tyler Perry were cool. Not distracting and Perry seemed to be good, even if he is for a couple of scenes.

    Some things that I would have liked to have seen or would have improved on....
    Why didn't George beam onto a shuttle, or at least try, after putting the Kelvin in auto pilot? Perhaps a scene where he runs to the transporter room and doesn't make it in time?

    I would have liked to have seen more with Kirk regarding his father specifically. Here both Kirk and Spock have lost a parent because of Nero, and I think this would have been a good opportunity for a bonding scene between the two to bring them together even more. Why not? Maybe it would allow the real pain of Kirk being with out his father.

    Also, Kirk officially becomes a Captain and his mother isn't at the ceremony? I would have included her. This could have been a perfect character moment (Which Orci/Kurtzman most certainly proved that they could pull off by the way.) He is becoming the man his father was, this would have been cool.

    I wasn't sure about the fight scene between Kirk and Spock. Spock lets loose on him and no one stops him? That was probably the one "big thing" I wasn't sure about, but didn't hinder my enjoyment. Just like a Watercooler thing.

    In conclusion, I found this to be a very credible entry into the Star Trek lore, and I think it is only going to get better. It has the makings of a good Star Trek story. Is it perfect? No. Are there some things that could have been revised a little? Sure! But I would say that about a lot of Star Trek, so I'm not complaining! If anyone tries to tell you that "This isn't Star Trek," they don't have a clue! There is absolutely nothing here that makes this anymore or anyless a Star Trek than before. The only thing different is that this has two things that Star Trek has lacked in a long time... a pulse & cajones! It even has some brains and heart to boot, IMHO. If you haven't seen this, please do. Go in with an open mind and just have fun! Just don't go in with unreal expectations and realities of what Star Trek supposedly was before and try to hold this up to it. You will likely find that not even the best of Star Trek will hold up to the unrealistic levels some fans have put it.

  7. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    Another one of the Onion stereotype fans again! ugh! Yes all that exists in another timeline. RAMA
  8. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell memelord Premium Member

    Jun 12, 2001
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    All those things still exist. Just in a different timeline. :)

    One can assume the Vulcans knew quite a bit about their Romulan cousins.

    Valid nits, I will agree, although I'm sure they could be explained away in some arcane fashion.

    Why not?

    It took some getting used to, but I enjoyed a more energetic pace. Star Trek has become rather lugubrious and ponderous over the years. The lens flares were kind of overdone but they're a stark contrast to most visions of the future, which are dark, dark, dark. I can respect that, if we're going to have a bright future, let's have a bright future.

    Spock put Kirk off the ship because he knew if he didn't, Kirk would just find some way to make his life hell and challenge him again. He was hardly marooned without hope--had he remained in the pod he would have been picked up eventually, by personnel from the nearby base.

    And an ice moon with an atmosphere? Why not?

    But this is Pike we're talking about, who was established early in the movie to have considerable hero worship for Kirk's father. I can see him giving Kirk a chance to prove himself like that.

    The Enterprise couldn't because if they didn't do it quickly enough they'd just be shot to hell and wouldn't do any good at all. Seems a little unfair to blast Vulcan for not having orbital defenses when pretty much no incarnation of Trek has shown Federation planets to have significant orbital defenses.

    Coolant? As someone who grew up with Star Trek I just don't understand why anyone would get hung up on details like that. If you start to make it about all the trappings and technology and how-does-it-work, you lose sight of the important stuff.

    Did we even see the same movie? There were musical cues all over the place. A lot of them were pretty clever. Overall, I found the movie very, very respectful toward Star Trek's heritage--nods to just about every series, not to mention references to the original films, as well. And they didn't feel shoehorned in but flowed naturally from the circumstances. It felt like something written by people who understood Star Trek and were trying to distill its essence into a new form. It wasn't perfect but I'll tell you I haven't found a Trek movie this engaging since First Contact. Plot holes? Contrivances? This is Star Trek. Those are always present in abundance. I care more about the whole package--does it all make an entertaining and engaging whole? In my opinion, it does.
  9. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 1, 2006
    Intergalactic Planetary Planetary Intergalactic
    Re: Disturbed by What I've Seen.....

    I don't think too many people will agree with you, like, at all. Sorry you're one of those who're not having fun.
  10. gastrof

    gastrof Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    May 11, 2001
    New Vulcan
    Re: Disturbed by What I've Seen.....

    Might I suggest you review a few TOS episodes? Perhaps "The Alternative Factor" and "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? You know...some of the "best" offerings.

    Ask yourself-
    While this may have varied in some ways from what you'd have described as "ideal", was it a good Star Trek story and has it added to our collection of Trek stories we can enjoy?

    I haven't even seen it yet, but I find it hard to believe it's as bad as you seem to be making out. Personally I just plain HATE some of the changes and losses to the Trek universe that have been introduced by this film, but the fact is it's more Star Trek.

    Personally, I've always felt that after the pilot, the entire first season of TNG must have been an alternate universe. (Consider how Troi was between the pilot and the start of season two...including occasions of calling Riker "Bill" rather than "Will".) Still, we can enjoy those stories as well.

    We knew we'd never see "our" Kirk and Spock, at least not in their prime again. Now, we have a whole new Kirk and Spock we can observe and whose stories we can enjoy.

    If you would prefer to stick with what came before, that's your choice.

    Personally (and this is coming from a "Change NOTHING!!!" person who already knows MUCH has been changed) I'm looking forward to seeing the movie later today, and will likely want more once it's done.
  11. JRS

    JRS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 25, 2003
    Went to see the film on friday with my girfriend. The seats where pretty much full, much more people than in Wolverine for exsample:cool:
    My Treks experience was only hampered by couple of teenagers, who seemed to giggle about everytime Spock did something or maybe they though it was a comedy:rolleyes:
    But now to the film itself. I decided to list some good and few bad things.

    The Good:
    - This was one of the best Star Trek films,ever. And it did really feel like Trek and Abrams managed to make it seem somehow more real and life like.
    - The most emotional Trek, so far. The opening scenes where Kirks father dies was very powerful and so was the death of Spock mother. There was silence in the cinema during this. Powerful stuff.
    - The cas worked great. All where very good in their roles, especialy Quinto as Spock. Leonard Nimoy was amazing too, It was so great to see him play Spock again with such depth.
    - Loved the small references to past Trek. All the stuf about Klingons and Cardassians that was mentioned made the movies world more lively and very much Star Trek.
    - The humour worked very well, much better than i though it would be.
    - Loved the ship desing. The Enterprise was VERY beautiful on screen. Kelvin was cool and I loved also the desing of the Klingon ships, im glad they kept the familiar shape:techman: ( I want a tech book about all the ships of the film..)
    - The plot was good and the time-travel story worked nicely. Character moments worked well, thanks to the strong emotional core.
    - Special FX was the best ever in Star Trel, absolutly beautiful.

    The Bad:
    - The films pace was, at times, bit too fast to my liking.
    - The music, though very good, lost in my opinion to some of the scores made to Trek by goldsmith. Liked the new Trek theme.
    - We have to wait for year or two of the next one. I want more Trek!

    In overall this film is a great re-start for the Star Trek universe, it will bring new fans to Trek and will surely please to old ones, like me:cool:
    Ladies and gentleman, Star Trek is BACK:bolian:
  12. ST-One

    ST-One Vice Admiral

    Oct 28, 2004
    Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
    And what was 'The Doomsday Machine' trying to do, and 'Balance of Terror', and 'Mirror, Mirror', and...?
  13. erebus

    erebus Commander

    Aug 25, 2007
    profile pending deletion request 28/5/2009
    The fast promotion seems indicative of a rich advanced and inclusive culture that practices advancement by INTRINSIC merit and not by class or traditionally hierachical impositions; i.e. not by arbiturarily imposed (possibly even job-conflicting) concerns like politics, religion, class background, fashion or money/profit/corporate considerations.

    In that time people have the confidence to be themselves (ref: 'the savage curtain') because they have the freedom to be individuals and because their society is so rich and diverse (it has to be to endure) that there is a place in it for everybody to excel and contribute by being themselves (thereby promoting even more diversity, specialisation and society-endurance potential).

    Of course this egalitarian-through-individualism attutude will also promote institutions that encourage the same recursively in a positive feedback loop.

    So people won't be afraid to reliquish promotion to a newcomer because their system naturally promotes the best person for the job at the time as agreed by everybody because they can choose how to be: in this society people will be flexibly switching jobs as and when required.

    And remember it was Captain Pike who promoted Kirk and everyone knows he is a badass who knows what he's talking about ;)

    But i noticed this was going on all the time in the film: the characters apparently by natural habit kept pointing out each others strengths and weaknesses with candor and fairness everytime a decision or action required it - their comments were always objective and not swayed by any personal anonymosity. And when people were promoted it was because the situation made it necessary.
  14. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

    Jul 12, 2001
    Victoria, Australia
    ^ Sorry, that sounds nice but I don't buy it. Experience is an important factor for a leader, and there is no indication whatsoever that Kirk has anything outside of the events we see. Significant events, but nothing compared to the day-to-day task of commanding a starship. There is no indication he even has any experience working as part of a crew, let alone being in command of one.
  15. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 7, 2004
    Mannheim, Germany
    Oh my god

    Saw it yesterday with friends and was completely blown away! I expected a good movie judging by the general buzz but i was unprepared to how truly great the movie was. It had a few hiccups but mostly it was pure fun, emotional and funny and it will be hard for any movie to surpass it this year.

    What i liked:

    - the opening scenes of the Kelvin against the Romulan ship (Naraa). It was clear that the Kelvin had zero chances against the Narada and that their captain would buy it but the entire battle was so well done i was gripped. I became a little bit choked up when Kirk heard his baby son cry for the first time while he was seconds away from death. Masterful arrangement and the music along it was simply amazing.

    - kid Kirk stealing the car and then running along with the Beastie Boys playing :guffaw::guffaw:

    - young Kirk in general.. Chris Pine really delivered it and i was astonished at how close he played it to Shatners Kirk.. at times you really believed that it was Shatner playing him at an early age (well.. if you discounted two different actors playing a similar character). He just nailed the character established by Shatner

    - Quinto as Spock.. omg. Pitch perfect casting

    - the rest of the cast was great too.. Chekov was a comedic relief mainly due to his accent but underneath you could see he was good and skilled.. something i always though wasn't properly conveyed in TOS and the movies. Simon Pegg as Scotty.. :lol::lol: 'nuff said ("Get down there!!!"). About the only one not really clicking that well was Karl Urban as McCoy though his was good to (i was in stitches the entire time he treated Kirk on the Enterprise)

    Overall an amazing ride and i hope to god they go on in this vein.. it would be a perfect starting point to reestablish the franchise and if you can find a decent boss to control/direct that (i doubt Abrams will stick to the franchise longer than a film or two more.. maybe not for an entire TV show).

    What i didn't like:

    - the contrived way of Kirk, Spock and Scotty to find each other.. that was a big stretch

    - those alien beasts attacking Kirk on the ice planet.. it felt like Attack of the clones where each beast was swallowed up by an even bigger one

    - Kirk riling up Spock to gain command.. imagine you are part of the bridge crew and see a cadet getting into an officers face on the worst day of his life losing his mother and his planet, then getting his ass handed to him by said commander (awesome scene btw) only to sit down in the captains chair.
    I wouldn't have followed Kirk if i were a superior officer (and there have to be people on the bridge who have finished academy and were at least Ensigns which outrank a Cadet every time). I would have at least taken over until a senior officer could arrive on the bridge to take over personally.
    I don't believe it was Pike's intention to have a cadet commanding the flaship of the Federation no matter his heritage and drive.

    - Kirk getting command of the Enterprise permanently? Really? :wtf::eek:
    Sum it up: You haven't finished the academy properly (3 out of 4 years.. no indication it was Kirks final year or that he really managed to finish in 3 instead of 4), were insubordinate to a superior officer AND cheated during an official academy test yet you are given the command of the Flagship of the Federation.

    Gimme a break. If i were a command officer in Starfleet i'd file an official protest at this. Kirk is command material but you don't just finish academy and instantly get command of a huge and important ship. You get maybe be Lieutenant (skipping Ensign) but then you work up. Kirk may have done this in record time and become the youngest Captain ever (like he did in TOS) but that was a bit too much.

    I may have even accepted him becoming 1st officer beside Pike and get the Enterprise in the 2nd or 3rd movie but this was just a bad scene.

    Anyway.. i'll be going a 2nd time to the movies later on, will obtain it through "alternative means" until the DVD is out and i will definitely recommend it to everybody.
  16. ST-One

    ST-One Vice Admiral

    Oct 28, 2004
    Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    '... but if I wanted to see sexy people in exciting...' ;)

    At least you give your money to finance the sequel. :techman:

    BTW: The beauty shots screamed for themselves?
    Honestly, there were only 3 or 4 shots in that film that can be considered beauty shots. And neither of them 'screamed' anything but the sheer beauty of the ship, you know like in TMP...
  17. natca1

    natca1 Cadet Newbie

    May 14, 2005
    Rhode Island ( is where??)
    I LOVED it.
  18. ST-One

    ST-One Vice Admiral

    Oct 28, 2004
    Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    You do know what Deuterium is, or rather where it is found in?
  19. cultcross

    cultcross #NotAllMods Moderator

    Jul 27, 2001
    This other Eden
    Re: A personal take on... that movie

    :guffaw: indeed.

    Besides, it's not 'engineering' in the 'Main Engineering' sense. Spock gives the location to Security - 'turbine' something or other.
  20. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 3, 2001
    On the destruct button until the last minute!
    The implication was that, in this film, starfleet cadets are commissioned officers. Spock called Uhura Lieutenant before they had even left Earth and Chekov was a 17 year old Ensign. Also, Spock was already a full Commander- but he couldn't have graduated that long ago.

    Since, Kirk was taking the KM test, he would likely have been a Lieutenant or Lieutenant-Commander had he not been on probation. The fact that Pike makes him first officer supports this. Pike also said that it would not be unusual to have your ship 4 years after graduation.