Spoilers The Ghost Monument grade and discussion thread

[Romulan_spy]

People keep forgetting that it "threw her out" because it was exploding and she would've been killed if it hadn't. The TARDIS saved her life by doing that -- it has nothing to apologize for.

True but the TARDIS could still be apologizing for the way it threw the Doctor out. Forcefully throwing the Doctor out such that she plunges to the ground from thousands of feet in the air may have been necessary in the moment but it was certainly not a pleasant experience for the Doctor. So maybe the TARDIS is apologizing for the unpleasantness of how it happened?

 

[Christopher]

True but the TARDIS could still be apologizing for the way it threw the Doctor out. Forcefully throwing the Doctor out such that she plunges to the ground from thousands of feet in the air may have been necessary in the moment but it was certainly not a pleasant experience for the Doctor. So maybe the TARDIS is apologizing for the unpleasantness of how it happened?

That's kind of like saying that someone who saved your life with CPR should apologize for pounding on your chest, or that the firefighters who rescued you from your burning house should apologize for breaking the door down.


Anyway, what bugged me is that Angstrom told the Doctor that her world was currently under attack and being ethnically cleansed by the Stenza -- and yet when she gets her TARDIS back, her only plan is "get these three back to Sheffield" instead of "go to Angstrom's planet and save billions of people from brutal invaders." I mean, sure, Angstrom said she could use the prize money to try to save her family, but that's hardly sufficient given all that's at stake.

On a lower-stakes level, it was also surprising that after the Doctor said "Yes, I'll take you home now," she didn't stop and smile at them and say, "Unless... you'd like to take a quick trip around the universe first?"

 

[Seven of Five]

I voted Very Good again. I look forward to the series blowing me away properly.

So I was already loving the new Doctor and the new theme, now we get to see the new-look TARDIS and she's spiffy.

It was another generic story, but like last week, it looked great. I'm starting to like Graham a bit more as well.

 

[Romulan_spy]

That's kind of like saying that someone who saved your life with CPR should apologize for pounding on your chest, or that the firefighters who rescued you from your burning house should apologize for breaking the door down.

Well, they might actually apologize, out of courtesy, for the broken door. Again, just out of courtesy because they did break your property. They are not apologizing for saving your life.

But I don't think it is the same comparison. A better analogy would be the firefighter just grabbing you and tossing out of the 4th story window without any notice. Sure, you land on the trampoline and are safe but you don't know that. You just see a firefighter grab you and toss you out of the window and you are plunging to the ground. They might out of courtesy apologize for the unpleasantness of it and the fear they gave you, even though they are not apologizing for the act of saving your life, just what they had to do to save your life.

Anyway, what bugged me is that Angstrom told the Doctor that her world was currently under attack and being ethnically cleansed by the Stenza -- and yet when she gets her TARDIS back, her only plan is "get these three back to Sheffield" instead of "go to Angstrom's planet and save billions of people from brutal invaders." I mean, sure, Angstrom said she could use the prize money to try to save her family, but that's hardly sufficient given all that's at stake.

Well, with time travel, as you well know, it does not matter. The Doctor could drop them off in Sheffield and then back in time and help Anstrom.

On a lower-stakes level, it was also surprising that after the Doctor said "Yes, I'll take you home now," she didn't stop and smile at them and say, "Unless... you'd like to take a quick trip around the universe first?"

I suspect we will get that scene or something very similar in next week's episode since we know these 3 companions will end up traveling with her in the TARDIS.

 

[Christopher]

Well, with time travel, as you well know, it does not matter. The Doctor could drop them off in Sheffield and then back in time and help Anstrom.

Yeah, but the point is there was no evidence that the Doctor was even interested in doing so. No point where she said "I promise, as soon as I get my TARDIS back, I'll take you home and help your people." It seems like an oversight on scriptwriter Chibnall's part that he didn't have the Doctor react to Angstrom's horror story the way it would've been in character for the Doctor to react. Of course, what's happening to Angstrom's planet is part of the overall Stenza arc of the season, and clearly the Doctor will eventually deal with their whole web of conquest, but just because Chibnall knows that doesn't mean the Doctor knows it at this point. So it's a point where the writer is plotting based on what he plans to happen rather than how the characters would believably feel or react at that particular moment.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Yeah, but the point is there was no evidence that the Doctor was even interested in doing so. No point where she said "I promise, as soon as I get my TARDIS back, I'll take you home and help your people." It seems like an oversight on scriptwriter Chibnall's part that he didn't have the Doctor react to Angstrom's horror story the way it would've been in character for the Doctor to react. Of course, what's happening to Angstrom's planet is part of the overall Stenza arc of the season, and clearly the Doctor will eventually deal with their whole web of conquest, but just because Chibnall knows that doesn't mean the Doctor knows it at this point. So it's a point where the writer is plotting based on what he plans to happen rather than how the characters would believably feel or react at that particular moment.

That's a very fair point.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I suspect we will get that scene or something very similar in next week's episode since we know these 3 companions will end up traveling with her in the TARDIS.

That or the Tardis decides to take a quick detour like it did last season.

 

[Longinus]

I was thinking that Moffat would've dragged out the mystery about the "Ghost Monument"'s identity until the end of the story, and treated "It's the TARDIS!" like some super-clever and important climactic twist. I'm glad this one only kept up the mystery about the "Monument" for about a minute or less after I figured it out.

Ha! You're so right about that!

I don't remember if it was already mentioned (I'm reading discussion about this episode on several different forums, so I get confused,) but Venusian Aikido made me cheer. Third is one of my favourite Doctors, so I was pleased to see that they brought back this martial art. I hope we get to see these Venusian nuns at some point...

 

[Farscape One]

I LOVE the new interior of the TARDIS! It feels like the TARDIS of the Eccleston/Tennant era, which I always was fond of.

And I really like the theme... reminds me of the Hartnell years. Very spooky, mysterious, and very cool.

I also like that the TARDIS was the Ghost Monument. In a lot of ways, that is an apt name for her... the TARDIS is a living monument to all those companions and Doctors from the past, present, and future. Very appropriate.

I am liking Jodie's Doctor so far. I feel shades of Troughton with her, and Troughton was my favorite of the classic show.

 

[Marc]

Thirteen is definitely different in one aspect from her previous incarnations.

They got a tad tetchy at being called "Doc" but Graham seems to be getting away with it

 

[Farscape One]

Possibly due to him being the oldest human of the three?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I adored the episode, in fact I'm liking the way the picked the premises for introducing the companions friends to spacetime travel and aliens. However, I'm finding it hard to get used to the Thirteenth Doctor. Possibly harder than Tenth (I totally hated Tenant for some time after Eccleston). Unlike my initial short-lived feelings towards Tenant, I love Whittaker, but I'm starting to get what they meant by “Gone is the daffiness and idiosyncrasy...”, and I don't like it.

My biggest gripe is she's way too open and reveals way too much. We have three companions, so she could leave them to ponder upon the mysteries surrounding them like the previous Doctors did. Especially on their first journey. I know it's silly to complain that the Doctor didn't leave it at “Yes. You should definitely not touch the water.” and maybe “Strange though. Why aren't there any creatures elsewhere?” But it just felt she volunteered too much on everything.

Also it was odd that they doubted her less than she did. I'm not sure it was bad. Just... different. Although logical. And it bothers me that it was logical.

Next week looks like it's going to be phenomenal, though. Besides, it's back on Earth, so

 

[Christopher]

Possibly due to him being the oldest human of the three?

She's 2000 years old. They're all children to her.

 

[Qonundrum]

Two possible arcs, actually, despite the showrunner said there would be none.

More amusing, it's a race and the participants take the time to rescue people (in order to bleat about what happens if they lose...) Doesn't matter what the reason is, they're in a race and don't give a damn so what are they doing picking up strangers in space with their thumbs pointed out?? Never mind the lurid detail about the hungry game race, making the whole episode collapse there and then if it hadn't already.

So everyone compliments how great it looks. What's that old phrase, again... makes no difference, the story is pure rubbish right from the start. Even TNG season 1 stories had more coherence.

 

[Christopher]

More amusing, it's a race and the participants take the time to rescue people (in order to bleat about what happens if they lose...) Doesn't matter what the reason is, they're in a race and don't give a damn so what are they doing picking up strangers in space with their thumbs pointed out??

They explained that. They assumed it was part of the contest, some goal they had to achieve to earn a bonus. I guess it's more like one of those competition reality shows with various episodic feats that have to be achieved, rather than a straight up speed contest.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I adored the episode, in fact I'm liking the way the picked the premises for introducing the companions friends to spacetime travel and aliens. However, I'm finding it hard to get used to the Thirteenth Doctor. Possibly harder than Tenth (I totally hated Tenant for some time after Eccleston). Unlike my initial short-lived feelings towards Tenant, I love Whittaker, but I'm starting to get what they meant by “Gone is the daffiness and idiosyncrasy...”, and I don't like it.

My biggest gripe is she's way too open and reveals way too much. We have three companions, so she could leave them to ponder upon the mysteries surrounding them like the previous Doctors did. Especially on their first journey. I know it's silly to complain that the Doctor didn't leave it at “Yes. You should definitely not touch the water.” and maybe “Strange though. Why aren't there any creatures elsewhere?” But it just felt she volunteered too much on everything.

Also it was odd that they doubted her less than she did. I'm not sure it was bad. Just... different. Although logical. And it bothers me that it was logical.

Next week looks like it's going to be phenomenal, though. Besides, it's back on Earth, so

Women tend to be more open than men.

 

[Christopher]

Women tend to be more open than men.

Which is largely cultural rather than innate -- but then, so are accents, and the Doctor's had a number of those.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Which is largely cultural rather than innate -- but then, so are accents, and the Doctor's had a number of those.

Humans have really rubbed off on her over the years. It’s probably why the other Time Lords don’t approve, they think she’s gone native.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Humans have really rubbed off on her over the years. It’s probably why the other Time Lords don’t approve, they think she’s gone native.

Well compared to the other time lords who stayed on Gallifrey, the doctor kinda has gone native.

 

[Christopher]

Humans have really rubbed off on her over the years. It’s probably why the other Time Lords don’t approve, they think she’s gone native.

Yeah, they all have RSC accents, like the Doctor did in his first six lives. But since then, the Doctor's accent has been Scottish twice, Northern twice, and Estuary once and a bit (I gather Smith's accent was mostly RP with a tinge of Estuary).