Spoilers The Ghost Monument grade and discussion thread

[matthunter]

As for the hologram bit, the Doctor was a hologram in Under the Lake/Before The Flood, but it doesn't really fit with the "hear a lot of gossip" line. Also the emergency holograms in Parting of the Ways and Blink, but same issue.

I suppose there's a case that the simulation Doctor created by the Monks in Extremis was holographic.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I quite liked this episode. I only rated it very good because I feel I need to leave the ‘oh, brilliant’ option in case there is something better later in the season.

One of the problems I had was when they were scooped up I immediately thought ‘Two Impropability Drives’ but then I am a great Douglas Adams fan.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Regarding the "timeless child" thing I thought of Susan at first, too, but then I thought it could fit Ashildr, too. I'm not sure if they would really go back to anything in Wholore for this season, though.

I hope it's not Ashildr/Me. As much as I adore Maisie William's, that whole storyline didn't work for me (and it should've), especially the conclusion with Clara.

As for the hologram bit, the Doctor was a hologram in Under the Lake/Before The Flood, but it doesn't really fit with the "hear a lot of gossip" line. Also the emergency holograms in Parting of the Ways and Blink, but same issue.

I suppose there's a case that the simulation Doctor created by the Monks in Extremis was holographic.

I didn't think of amy of those except the TARDIS emergency hologram which, like you said, does not make sense.

I think the Exremis hologram makes the most sense.

I quite liked this episode. I only rated it very good because I feel I need to leave the ‘oh, brilliant’ option in case there is something better later in the season.

That's my thinking as well. Need to make room for the likes of "Midnight," "The Doctor's Wife," and "The God Complex."

One of the problems I had was when they were scooped up I immediately thought ‘Two Inpropability Drives’ but then I am a great Douglas Adams fan.

Oh, of course. I didn't think of that myself but that makes perfect sense in retrospect.

 

[kirk55555]

"Guns, never use them"

(Yeah, the 10th Doctor basically said the same thing, and it was ridiculous then, too).

Plus, she had just said that they were fighting robots. No incarnation of The Doctor would mind shooting robots, especially ones that don't seem particularly sentient. Its really, really stupid. The Doctor isn't actually a pacifist, he/she just usually doesn't care for killing or violence unless absolutely necessary. But, fighting back against what is basically just a security system? Not even the 5th Doctor would blink at doing that. Sometimes I wonder why NuWho writers seem to periodically think that The Doctor is the kind of nonviolent that is basically just being really stupid. Also, it doesn't matter that in this case shooting them was a bad idea, that's the writer trying to justify bad character writing for The Doctor.

Besides this, the rest of the episode was ok. better then the first episode, but nothing all that memorable. As for the TARDIS, I HATE when its console is a stupid mess of contraptions instead of a actual console, but its still better then Smith's first room/console.

 

[CuriousCaitian]

A distinct step up from the first episode, with a brisker, more consistent pace, solid guest characters (although I do wish Art Malik could have been given more; still did better than David Warner, mind) stronger plot with a decent amount of propulsion and Jodie is already in danger of becoming my favourite modern Doctor. Satisfied to see there is more going on with Toothface's race, and am happy at the idea of an arc, since I suspect it'll be a lot less headache-inducing than prior ones.

Still not sold on the theme, and the music overall could do with a little more oomph and a little less low-key atmosphere, but really starting to appreciate the presentation and the approach. There's a definite sense of taking the time to build things, of letting the show grow steadily, which is the right way to go, in my opinion.

They keep improving the substance to match the gorgeous style, and we might just end up with something pretty special.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Jodie is already in danger of becoming my favourite modern Doctor.

That's a tall order for me considering how much I love The Eleventh Doctor but if Jodie keeps performing like this and keeps improving, I have a feeling The Thirteenth Doctor will eclipse The Eleventh for me by the end of the season.

 

[David cgc]

With regard to the new console room, I don't care for the hourglass (a bit too Doctor Seuss, reminds me of the alarm clock and faucet in Smith's first console room), nor do I like that you can see the frame of the exterior of the back wall of the Police Box in the foyer. It doesn't make sense! That part is already outside the ship, it can't be bigger on the inside if the outside is on the inside. I'm fine with the foyer, just because it makes life easier shooting the exterior with the doors open (though I'm not sure if I prefer the full box just hanging out there compared to the way it was done in the last control room). Design of the room itself feels weirdly sketchy and suggestive, almost cheap (like how the Centauri Palace on Babylon 5 was made almost entirely of room dividing/concealing curtains). It gives me the sense that if they turned up the lights, you'd be able to see through the holes in the walls straight to the snack table and the emergency exit for the soundstage. It's probably all those off-screen spotlights making random god-rays. Still not a fan of the solid floor. And, incredibly, they got rid of the telephone in the door! What happens if the Doctor needs to call someone, or a gas-mask zombie needs to be creepy?

I have a feeling the console room might grow into itself, the way the last one was tweaked until it reached its final, superior form in Capaldi's second season. One thing I do particularly like is the little translucent Police Box. I imagine that's the readout for the Chameleon Circuit. I also liked the new dematerialization effect having a little distortion as the TARDIS fades away. I didn't like how they gradually lost interest in doing the transparent lighting-effect overlay as the years have gone on and started just having the TARDIS fade out in a simple dissolve.

 

[Longinus]

The moment I heard that the “Timeless Child was abandoned” and The Doctor’s reaction to it, I immediately thought Susan... and that they were finally going to do something with her.

Yeah, that was my first thought too.

 

[Nightowl1701]

The moment I heard that the “Timeless Child was abandoned” and The Doctor’s reaction to it, I immediately thought Susan... and that they were finally going to do something with her. But I keep thinking that this season for sure were going to get Susan and so far... nope.

I don't want to get my hopes up, they've passed up way too many chances these thirteen years. I'm almost certain Susan either died during the Time War, or was in some way disgraced/excommunicated/erased from history by Rassilon and became the nameless Woman in 'The End of Time.' It's clear the Doctor thinks of her (along with all his other family) as dead, given her speech last episode and Twelve having that framed picture of Susan alongside the recently-dead River Song in his school office.

I know Thirteen likes it, but I'm really not feeling this new desktop theme at all. And the console design...

Did anybody else notice the TARDIS's engines sounding deeper, rougher, lower pitched? Dare I say... masculine?

"Guns, never use them"

New life, renewal of The Promise. The Doctor's clung to the guilt of her previous lives' mistakes long enough.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I honestly was hoping the console resembled the original, if not outright. Go real classic comeback, you know? Plus, it'd be economical for them as they'd keep the set from Twice Upon a Time.

 

[Christopher]

The plot here was a little unfocused, without any real stakes to the situation beyond the leads getting to the TARDIS and the other two winning a race. But I guess it is a nice change of pace to get away from stories where the fate of an entire planet/galaxy/universe is at stake. And it was largely about furthering the character development and laying hints for the season arc. It is very coincidental that they just happened to have two consecutive encounters connected to the Stenza, but then, it's always been coincidental that the Doctor always lands in the middle of trouble. Maybe this was more of the TARDIS taking the Doctor where they needed to be.

New console room: I like the walls, and the full police-box interior as a foyer. I don't like the return to a whimsical/non-functional console design, or the dim lighting. The previous console room design remains my favorite.

(Graham even quotes Ian Chesterton at one point!)

When was that?

(just where had the Doctor been keeping those sunnies?)

Just before she pulled them out, she had a line, "Oh, I forgot I put things in these pockets!" She must've done it sometime between her clothes shopping and her ill-fated teleport experiment. It might've taken days for her to rig the TARDIS tracker/teleporter, for all we know.

The moment I heard that the “Timeless Child was abandoned” and The Doctor’s reaction to it, I immediately thought Susan... and that they were finally going to do something with her. But I keep thinking that this season for sure were going to get Susan and so far... nope.

My first thought was Jenny from "The Doctor's Daughter." But the dialogue implied the Doctor didn't know about the Child. The Doctor did know about Jenny's existence, though not her survival after the episode. So it's probably something new.

With regard to the new console room, I don't care for the hourglass (a bit too Doctor Seuss, reminds me of the alarm clock and faucet in Smith's first console room), nor do I like that you can see the frame of the exterior of the back wall of the Police Box in the foyer. It doesn't make sense! That part is already outside the ship, it can't be bigger on the inside if the outside is on the inside.

I just see that as cosmetic, an interior decoration duplicating the exterior (in the same way the decoration on the console room set duplicates the exterior of the separate TARDIS prop -- they aren't the same thing, they just look alike).

I'm fine with the foyer, just because it makes life easier shooting the exterior with the doors open (though I'm not sure if I prefer the full box just hanging out there compared to the way it was done in the last control room).

The previous console room had the same dimensions -- the foyer leading to the doors was the same shape and size as the police-box interior, it just wasn't styled to look like a police box interior. So the only difference is, again, cosmetic.

One thing I do particularly like is the little translucent Police Box. I imagine that's the readout for the Chameleon Circuit.

I found that bit rather kitschy and on-the-nose. I want proper spaceship buttons and lights, darn it!

 

[Nightowl1701]

My first thought was Jenny from "The Doctor's Daughter." But the dialogue implied the Doctor didn't know about the Child. The Doctor did know about Jenny's existence, though not her survival after the episode. So it's probably something new.

Twelve met Jenny in the comics, and her Big Finish series kinda references that, so... yeah, not Jenny.

"She doesn't know? We see what's hidden, even from yourself... The outcast, abandoned and unknown..." So not Susan either, as (s)he definitely remembers her.

 

[Christopher]

Twelve met Jenny in the comics, and her Big Finish series kinda references that, so... yeah, not Jenny.

Tie-ins aren't binding on the main show. It may wink at them or borrow ideas from them from time to time, but it's always been free to contradict them.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Still trying to adjust to the new direction. I think RTD or Moffat would've offed someone in that story. I guess it's a positive message about working together even if it is highly improbable that either of those characters would.

Jodie's Doctor is just so damned earnest. I almost wonder if she'll try to return the stolen TARDIS and turn herself in. Some of the messaging is a bit heavy-handed and misguided like setting off a bomb being better than using guns on machines. The scene with Ryan running and gunning was funny but came out of nowhere. I guess that was less challenging than the ladder as he was more practiced?

Those sniperbots were as precise as Imperial Stormtroopers.

I think the TARDIS interior could use a woman's touch! Pretty grimdark ugly in my mind but I would've liked it as a moody teen. I wonder if it will show up in the opening credits next week but I don't think they're going there.

Not great but it moved along fairly briskly. The outdoor shooting and locations kept it interesting visually. It's closer but still feels a bit by-the-numbers to me. I can understand trying to be more grounded but I miss some of the romp. Maybe I just have Who fatigue after so many seasons. The nitpicker in me was pleased that they mentioned the translators as I was already thinking of that by that point.

 

[tomalak301]

It was ok, but I think I liked last weeks better. I agree with @Mr. Adventure about Jodie being too earnest. The whole thing with the guns did seem a little heavy handed to me, and it did make me wonder how she would react if she saw a Dalek or something. I thought she made up for it with the Tardis scene though. It was like seeing two love birds reunite. You can see the romanticism in that scene and it was my favorite part of the episode. I actually do like the console room and it does feel more alien. I just wish we could see other rooms in the Tardis. I think the only time they even covered other rooms since 2005 was a Peter Capaldi episode (If I recall).

As for the theme, I was kinda hoping it would be longer. My favorite theme is probably still the RTD era theme, seeing the Tardis in the Vortex and all that jazz.

Another scene I appreciated in the episode was the Universal Translator comments. I wonder if they kept the implants, or if the Tardis will remove them. I don't think they removed them in this episode.

 

[Mr Soak]

I thought the dialogue implied the “Timeless Child” was a direct reference to the Doctor herself, something she didn’t actually know about herself.

 

[Mage]

Entertaining, but not brilliant. Loved the new theme and the new TARDIS. I'm liking this Doctor sofar.

Did anyone else have small audio issues?

 

[Awesome Possum]

Jodie's Doctor is just so damned earnest. I almost wonder if she'll try to return the stolen TARDIS and turn herself in. Some of the messaging is a bit heavy-handed and misguided like setting off a bomb being better than using guns on machines. The scene with Ryan running and gunning was funny but came out of nowhere. I guess that was less challenging than the ladder as he was more practiced?

The Doctor didn't set off a bomb, it was an EMP. She clearly stated that she had only fried their circuits and they would reboot soon.

 

[Relayer1]

I quite liked this episode. I only rated it very good because I feel I need to leave the ‘oh, brilliant’ option in case there is something better later in the season.

One of the problems I had was when they were scooped up I immediately thought ‘Two Inpropability Drives’ but then I am a great Douglas Adams fan.

Having two ships equipped with improbability drives would be rather...improbable !

 

[DimesDan]

I liked it. Not a brilliant episode, but entertaining enough.