The Clone Wars and Rebels - A First Timer's Thread

[Ithekro]

Unlike Obi-wan "Ben" Kenobi and Yoda, who went into exile, Caleb Dume was a kid who had to hide in plain sight. He was still a part of the galaxy and the Empire would be looking for a padawan named Caleb Dume. So at some point he took up the name Kanan Jarrus. It was probably done in the comics after he started working as a smuggler.

 

[JD]

I haven't read it yet, but I believe the first arc in the Kanan comic covers the origin of the Kanan Jarrus name.

'Resistance' was...not awful, I guess. It was even OK most of the time. Mostly though it was a squandered opportunity; the basic concept had WAY more potential than the execution. personally I don't regret watching it, but I also have zero inclination to ever revisit it, so make of that what you will.

Yeah, I watched about the first half of season 1 of Resistance, and I liked it, but nowhere near as much as the other Clone Wars or Rebels. Even before we knew about Bad Batch, I couldn't help but wonder if they put Resistance together just to kill time until they were able to do the next animated series, which we now know will be The Bad Batch.
I do plan on eventually finishing up Season 1 and watching Season 2, but it's nowhere near as high on my list as a lot other shows I'm trying to get caught up on.

 

[Reverend]

I'm into the Rebels on Lothal and Ezra running into the Loth-Wolves storyline of season 4. We just found out that Kanan's real name is Caleb, and there is an episode called "Dume" coming up. My question now is where did the whole Kanan Jarrus name come from, so I'm hoping they might tell me in that episode. As for "Kindrid", it looks like they are delving deep into the Mystery of Lothal, how they found Ezra, and Kanan even saying that the Phoenix (Previously Spectre) group has been drawn to that world. I'm liking where season 4 is going and the Wolves are beautiful creatures.

Pretty sure Kanan's real name have been mentioned a few times already; first by the Grand Inquisitor in season 1 and again by Maul in season 3. "Kanan Jarrus" is just a fake name he assumed to hide his identity after Order 66. There's a comic that gets into the ins about outs of that time, but I don't think it's spoiling anything to say it's just a kinda/sorta rearrangement of syllables of the name "Janus Kasmir", who was a smuggler that took him in in the early days.

As for the wolves: it's no secret that Dave Filloni is obsessed with wolves. It's no coincidence that his favourite Jedi is Plo Koon and his Clones were called 'The Wolf Pack', or that San from 'Princess Mononoke' was a major design influence on Ahsoka. So this is him just cutting loose because: fuck it, it's the last season and he never got to do his "Ahsoka escapes Order 66 with Giant Wolves" idea from Clone Wars!

 

[tomalak301]

Kanan’s real name has not been mentioned before, or at least not to the other Rebels.

 

[Reverend]

Au contraire.

 

[tomalak301]

Au contraire.

I'm mistaken, and I think I just saw that episode like 2 weeks ago. I'm sorry for doubting.

 

[Reverend]

In fairness, I probably misremembered about it being in season 1 too. So we'll call it even.

 

[tomalak301]

In fairness, I probably misremembered about it being in season 1 too. So we'll call it even.

These episodes are so short and I'm kinda binging it, so they do run together. When I was watching the Geonosis episodes last week I was trying to read up and remind myself about the importance of that world considering those were some of the first Clone Wars episodes I saw, and that is like 2 months ago now. I'm really enjoying the stories but things blend together that nothing has really stood out as being a moment I will remember, except for maybe the Ahsoka/Vader fight scenes, the Mandalore episodes, or the battle above Atollon, or Bendu, mainly because Tom Baker's voice is so distinct, or pretty much all the Ahsoka scenes from Season 4 of Clone Wars to where I'm at currently.

 

[Skywalker]

Resistance has a potentially cool setup and it does get kinda interesting in the latter part of season 1 and parts of season 2, but it's such a pointless show and the main character is arguably the most obnoxious character in recent Star Wars history. Even Jar Jar isn't as bad as Kaz.

 

[tomalak301]

Holy Crap, they killed Kanan. I kinda knew it was coming mainly because when I was searching for "Caleb Dume" stuff on Youtube today to see if he had been mentioned any other time other than the Link @Reverend provided, one of the first entries was his death. They also telegraphed it mainly because of his and Hera's scenes regarding their relationship which was really plowed home after the previous three seasons not really addressing it that much. Still, knowing he was going to die, I'm glad they gave him a Heroes death, going out in a literal blaze of glory, saving the life of his friends. Also, the Silent credits makes me think this is a death that won't be retconned. 24 always utilized the silent credits really well and this actually reminded me of that series.

The Next episode is called Dume, so now that I know Caleb was killed, I actually have zero idea what this episode could be. This has been a hell of an arc.

 

[tomalak301]

Well, I finally know what Ahsoka's fate was after her duel with Vader, and what came with it is one of the most beautiful episodes I've seen in this Star Wars franchise. Dave Filoni really and truly does live and breathe Star Wars, and how he has used Clone Wars and Rebels to just expand everything in this universe has been an absolute pleasure to experience. A Year ago I was only into the movies, and I thought the Star Wars franchise was on it's last legs. The fanbase was toxic, the sequel movies were not all that great, and I walked out of Rise of Skywalker confused and kind of sad about what was happening to this universe. Then Mandalorian came along and it felt like the spirit of Star Wars was returning. I started to see this franchise as more than just movies or TV shows. I started to see it as a human condition morality play, focusing on themes of family, sacrifice, love, and the spiritual aspects of the force and just expanding my knowledge about the Jedi and what it means.

I'm watching this episode, and going in I was really looking forward to this one because one of the primary reasons for wanting to do this was because of Ahsoka. This episode not only revealed Ahsoka's fate, but it taught Ezra the most important lesson of all, finding that moment where he is most needed and letting go of the past. When Ahsoka says that Ezra can't help his master and she also couldn't help hers, I really felt a sense of both characters growing up. Ahsoka, who left the Order, was still loyal to Anakin but couldn't save him and blamed herself for what happened. Ezra, the young Jedi who wanted so desperately to save his master but realized by doing so he and his friends would die also forcing him to let go.

This series aired on Disney XD, meaning the main demographic was children, but the themes are so timeless and applies to each and every one of us. I know I've said a lot here, but thinking about this episode, and this journey I've been on (especially the Mortis arc which came flooding back to my memory), I am getting a little emotional. This is absolutely magical storytelling that Filoni and the writing team is pulling off. This is Star Wars at it's absolute best. I know when the finale aired for Mandalorian, I said in the best Star Wars I have seen in the last 30 years. Watching this episode and just enjoying the ride, this has been the best feeling I have felt as a casual fan of this franchise in my life. This even overshadows the original trilogy. This is Star Wars at it's absolute best, and it's a magical feeling.

 

[tomalak301]

And the next episode features why the Loth-Wolves were so important. Gotta love a short season coming together like this in anticipation for the long finale (According to Disney+). That was a hell of a plan to get Pryce and gotta love Hera's fancy flying.

 

[Ithekro]

One wonders if the Bad Batch cartoon will go into how Gregor turned back up and what Wolf's aftermath of Order 66 was like, and why he went into exile with Rex later on? We see them in Rebels, but, at this point, aside from seeing what happened to Rex and Ahsoka at the end of the Clone Wars, we have a some threads they can go after. Its about 15 years between the end of the Clone Wars and the start of Rebels...and ten years or so until even the film Solo. The first ten years of the Empire was probably the last period of the Clone Troopers still in the Empire in numbers. If the Empire decided to keep their investment for the Kamino clones under the Republic (waste not, want not), the last orders of clones would start to see front line service in the year before Solo. At which point it would be in the Empire's best interest to increase recruitment of citizens by tenfold. to replace the remains of the Grand Army of the Republic/Stormtrooper Corps that was full of Jango Clones. The remains of the first batches, the ones seen for the early days of the Clone Wars, would be retiring (forced even) due to their rapid aging and probably other reasons. And what was left of the last batches would start to age out by the time of A New Hope, and should be retired by Endor and Jakku, or the last Imperial clones would be senior staff or elite troopers, if the lived and remained in service.

Otherwise, Kamino is shut down, and the last batches are put into service the year after the war ends, and the rest...."scrapped" (exterminated). I know the Empire is cruel and all, and in some ways wants to move on after the war (from the trapping of the Republic), but if the goal is to expand the military, might as well end the production of new clones, but allow those in progress to complete so you can maintain your core military strength while you transition into recruits for the Imperial Army and Navy. Slowly retiring the Clone Army. That makes logical sense. You still have Separatist holdouts and rebellions to stomp in the early years. And the Outer Rim to pacify and garrison. Even by the time Han Solo was in the Army, they were still suppressing the Outer Rim. By Rebels, that was....mostly finished. At that point it was random insurrections and rebel groups rather than planets to quell. The Imperial Army was a "peacetime army" and garrison force in the years before the Alliance to Restore the Republic attacked Scariff and the Battle of Yavin.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, one of the more sinister things that's been floating at the back of my mind ever since TCW has been "what did they do with all the clone children and foetuses after the war?" Even late on they're still growing and training new batches as if there was expected to be an ongoing demand for at least a decade. I'm guessing the answer is probably "nothing good."

In lore it appears the Empire had already switched to a mostly conscripted military within the first year (per the 'Ahsoka' novel), to the point that five years in (per Jedi Fallen Order) if there's any clones still left in the ranks, they're few and far between. Maybe the Kamino's stepped up the accelerated aging with that last batches and those decanted in the last year aged out inside those five years and died in a decade leaving only the veteran survivors of the pre-war batches still alive after they were all demobbed.

Well, I finally know what Ahsoka's fate was after her duel with Vader, and what came with it is one of the most beautiful episodes I've seen in this Star Wars franchise. Dave Filoni really and truly does live and breathe Star Wars, and how he has used Clone Wars and Rebels to just expand everything in this universe has been an absolute pleasure to experience. A Year ago I was only into the movies, and I thought the Star Wars franchise was on it's last legs. The fanbase was toxic, the sequel movies were not all that great, and I walked out of Rise of Skywalker confused and kind of sad about what was happening to this universe. Then Mandalorian came along and it felt like the spirit of Star Wars was returning. I started to see this franchise as more than just movies or TV shows. I started to see it as a human condition morality play, focusing on themes of family, sacrifice, love, and the spiritual aspects of the force and just expanding my knowledge about the Jedi and what it means.

I'm watching this episode, and going in I was really looking forward to this one because one of the primary reasons for wanting to do this was because of Ahsoka. This episode not only revealed Ahsoka's fate, but it taught Ezra the most important lesson of all, finding that moment where he is most needed and letting go of the past. When Ahsoka says that Ezra can't help his master and she also couldn't help hers, I really felt a sense of both characters growing up. Ahsoka, who left the Order, was still loyal to Anakin but couldn't save him and blamed herself for what happened. Ezra, the young Jedi who wanted so desperately to save his master but realized by doing so he and his friends would die also forcing him to let go.

This series aired on Disney XD, meaning the main demographic was children, but the themes are so timeless and applies to each and every one of us. I know I've said a lot here, but thinking about this episode, and this journey I've been on (especially the Mortis arc which came flooding back to my memory), I am getting a little emotional. This is absolutely magical storytelling that Filoni and the writing team is pulling off. This is Star Wars at it's absolute best. I know when the finale aired for Mandalorian, I said in the best Star Wars I have seen in the last 30 years. Watching this episode and just enjoying the ride, this has been the best feeling I have felt as a casual fan of this franchise in my life. This even overshadows the original trilogy. This is Star Wars at it's absolute best, and it's a magical feeling.

I'm holding off saying any more until after you've seen the finale, but for now, you might want to go back and take another look at the final scene of Clone Wars with Vader, and you may see a familiar bird...

 

[Ithekro]

Looking up canon stories, it seems that the Empire decide to complete the clones that they ordered that had been started, but stopped any future production. So by just after the Battle of Yavin, there are a few clones still on the front lines that look like they are about 40 (with twice aging...20 years only), which would put them as having being started at the end of the Clone Wars, and aged to service age around 11 or 10 BBY, about nine years after the end of the Clone Wars. So ten or eleven years of service to the Empire would be when they would start to be "getting up there" for a clone. By Endor, they would be physically 50 years old. Rex was a first batch clone, so by Endor he's lot would be physically just past 70. Still within human life expectancy and still able to serve, but it would be getting harder on his 36 or so year old body. (Which would also be Boba Fett's age, come to think of it).

It seems there was a clone trooper in the group that stopped Luke's speeder in Mos Eisley. He was the old man of the unit. A sergeant named Crag who some of the stormtroopers thought of as a relic. He would have been a post-war addition to the Imperial Army and not a Clone Wars veteran. Didn't stop him from being fooled by a Jedi Mind Trick.

 

[USS Firefly]

Do we know how old humans can get in the Star Wars universe?

 

[tomalak301]

I'm holding off saying any more until after you've seen the finale, but for now, you might want to go back and take another look at the final scene of Clone Wars with Vader, and you may see a familiar bird...

It's the Morai Bird that has symbolized the Daughter (The light side of the force) and has followed Ahsoka around, mainly because Ahsoka pretty much represents the light side of the force in it's purest form. One of the final scenes of that episode was Ezra asking Ahsoka to come and find him, so even if she doesn't appear but the bird does, I will be very happy.

 

[Ithekro]

Do we know how old humans can get in the Star Wars universe?

In canon, I don't recall.

In the old EU there were humans in their 160s still working, even if confined to a chair. Humans in their 130s that would still lead rebellions against the Empire. The Heroes of Yavin were in their 60s and 70s and hadn't really slowed down yet. Some women were having children in their 50s. Much of it was down to medical science. Bacta and the ability to just replace failing organs and the like.

 

[Skywalker]

It never really made sense to me that the Empire stopped using clones after the Clone Wars. Jango Fett wasn't the only badass warrior in the galaxy, and clones are far easier to program and control than conscripted soldiers. Not to mention a neverending army of clones fits right in with the Empire's strategy of overwhelming your enemy with numbers.

 

[JD]

These episodes are so short and I'm kinda binging it, so they do run together. When I was watching the Geonosis episodes last week I was trying to read up and remind myself about the importance of that world considering those were some of the first Clone Wars episodes I saw, and that is like 2 months ago now. I'm really enjoying the stories but things blend together that nothing has really stood out as being a moment I will remember, except for maybe the Ahsoka/Vader fight scenes, the Mandalore episodes, or the battle above Atollon, or Bendu, mainly because Tom Baker's voice is so distinct, or pretty much all the Ahsoka scenes from Season 4 of Clone Wars to where I'm at currently.

If you're enjoying the shows this much you really should check out the books and comics, they really do a lot to expand on the characters and the universe from what we see in the shows and movies, in the same way the shows expanded on things from the movies. The core Star Wars comic series introduced one of the new canon's best new characters, Chelli Aphra, and it's second and third best new droids, after BB-8, 0-0-0 and BT-1.