The Clone Wars and Rebels - A First Timer's Thread
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Ok, I just watched "Twin Suns" and this was an episode I've been looking forward to for a while. Was the big moment mentioned up thread a few days ago Aunt Buru calling for Luke with Obi Wan looking on? Or was it Obi Wan killing Maul? It was a great episode, with a lot of homages to A New Hope but I think I might have been expecting a little more. I will say the voice actor who played Obi Wan was great though. I honestly thought that was Alec Guiness and watched the credits to see who he was.
Also, I might be a little confused about what happened during the Obi Wan/Maul fight scene. Obi Wan kills him, and Maul asks about the Chosen One and he will avenge us. Was he talking about Luke or Vader?
Also, I might be a little confused about what happened during the Obi Wan/Maul fight scene. Obi Wan kills him, and Maul asks about the Chosen One and he will avenge us. Was he talking about Luke or Vader?
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Though worth keeping in mind; Bo-Katan and her group hardly qualify as "normal Mandalorian society". They're mostly former members of Death Watch (Sabine's parents included), and while they're not religious extremists, they are (or at least were) much further along that political curve that what might pass for a Mandalorian centrist. I mean, even the name "Children of the Watch" echoes "The Death Watch" so clearly there's some association there.
Ever since season 1 of Mando, I've been operating under the assumption that the group of Mandos we were introduced to were a cult of extremists that are all that's left of Death Watch's religious arm, and so far that seems to have borne out.
While in practice it seemed little more than a platform to accrue personal power and influence, Vizla always did preach a return the the warrior traditions, so having him rally "The Children of the Watch" to his cause and putting them in charge of his child soldier fighting corps makes sense. It gives him more able bodies and base support to work with while at the same keeps the zealots like The Armorer too occupied to get on his case about keeping the stupid helmet on all the damn time.
It was Chopper's dramatic sigh after deciding to stick with Ezra, obviously!
He was talking about Luke. Obi-Wan believes Anakin is a lost cause even *after* he dies and becomes one with the universe. In his opinion, Luke is in fact the Chosen One. He's wrong, but he's not to know that.
ETA: This is IMO a very underrated aspect of Star Wars: the idea of the unreliable, or uninformed narrator.
In the real world, "History" is mostly just a version of events people have agreed on (and may change their mind about later), so an utterance, no matter how confidently spoken should never be taken as objective fact, and yet when it comes to fiction we've conditioned ourselves to accept information at face value.
Case in point: Darth Plagueis. For years we've assumed that he was Palpatine's Master, that he fiddled with midi-chorians, and was ultimately betrayed and murdered by his apprentice. Almost all of which in merely inferred, and even then only alluded to in a single conversation with a party we as the audience know for a fact was actively attempting to deceive and manipulate.
For all we know, that whole thing is 100% pure kowakian monkey-lizard droppings. There may never have even been a Sith Lord by that name!
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That was the big moment for me.
Stephen Stanton does a great Obi-Wan and even played him in a fan film too. It was nice to hear his voice and Sam Witwer (Maul) enjoyed working with him.
Luke because that is who Obi-Wan believes is the Chosen One.
It was Chopper's dramatic sigh after deciding to stick with Ezra, obviously!
I know this is somewhat sarcasm, but I do love Chopper's personality in this episode. You can kinda feel what that little droid is feeling.
I kind of figured that, but after the prequel trilogy, it really did turn the entirety of the 6 films into Anakin's journey so that was a little vague to me.
It is vague on purpose because they don't have a complete picture. Obi-Wan believes Anakin is completely lost to the Dark Side so how can he still be the Chosen One? Like @Reverend says Obi-Wan is not meant to know. He has limited information.
Because I love this scene so much here is one of my favorite Sam Witwer clips discussing this specific scene, talking about Stephen Stanton, and Maul's own twisted perspective on the Chosen One:
Ah, ok. It's been a while since I've seen that episode, but I do remember the different factions of Mandalorians that was mentioned. I don't think we've seen the "Children of the Watch" in Clone Wars or Rebels, so I was wondering if there might be any connection between Rebels season 4 and Mandalorian. Also, I noticed just by looking at the synopsis's of some of the season 4 episodes that Sabine does return, so maybe some things might be cleared up. I will start Season 4 maybe tomorrow.
'The Mandalorian' is the first place "The Children of the Watch" been mentioned by name, or indeed the concept of a Mandalorian religion at all. However their connection to Vizla's faction is very clearly implied by the fact that the warriors that rescued Dyn as a child bare the sign of The Death Watch (which is also happens to be similar to the mark of House Vizla.) Plus of course the heavy weapons Mando in season one is credited as Paz Vizla, and voiced by non other than Jon Faverau, who of course also voiced Pre Vizla in Clone Wars.
So while the association isn't exactly explained, there's more than enough clues to see that it's fairly explicit.
As Sabine says, Mandalorians have spent as much of their history fighting among themselves as they have anyone else. Factionalization has been a constant, thanks largely to the nature of a feudal power structure and a fetishization of the ancient warrior culture. Both are things Satine seemed to be trying to move them away from, but the warrior clans for various reasons resisted the change; because it lessens their personal power and influence, because it's a homogenisation of their diverse culture, because it supresses their religious beliefs.
The curious part of all this for me is that to this day, I don't actually understand Bo-Katan's motivations. We've never been given her backstory; why the split with her sister, why she willingly followed Vizla, why she continues to fight for decades, or what she really actually wants out of all of this.
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I love some of the smaller details of the duel. Like Obi-Wan striking poses used by both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness. And Maul leading off with the same move that he killed Qui-Gon with and Obi Wan seeing it coming a mile away.
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Fun facts, that is actually Ezra's model they used for Luke as he's in the distance and in silhouette they didn't feel the need to make a new model. And the audio of Beru calling for Luke was from an unused take of Beru calling for Luke in ANH.
Obi-wan actually switches his stance from his Clone Wars days to something he would use against Vader on the Death Star, to the stance Qui-Gon used on Naboo...to bait Maul into pulling the move he used to kill Qui-Gon....and Obi-Wan was ready for it....it was quick, like a master should be.
Zero Hour was an epic finale. The last time I was that excited for a battle over a base was Stargate Atlantis in it's season 1 finale. This one was just non-stop action and just felt right for a Star Wars property. It had emotion (Sato's suicide run) the feeling of fighting for a lost cause but doing everything you can to try to survive, and just all the characters being at the top of their game. I loved seeing Sabine come back, Bendu having a major role to (Kinda) help the rebels escape, and symbolism of the two dots in Bendu's eyes and the 1 dot in Thrawn's eye, and the sentiments at the end about being able to see things differently and believing that they will be free again, as a nice full circle moment with how Season 3 started. This was a hell of a season of Star Wars, and I'm actually a little said that there are only 15 episodes left. I was excited to see Thrawn and he did not disappoint. That voice, that look, everything about him is creepy as hell.
I was talking about the Obi-Wan/Maul duel, I thought that was just an absolutely amazing moment.
Got through the first 5 episodes of Season 4. I really liked that Mandalore arc to start the season and I'm glad Sabine is back. I was just thinking, Sabine is played by Tia Sircar and I think this was about the time The Good Place was going on. She had a pretty big role at the end of season 1 so it made sense for them to write off Sabine for a few episodes. I loved everything about that first arc, and it ended with Bo Katan getting the Darksaber and leading the Mandalorians. I think that might be the end of Bo-Katan's story until we see her again in Mandalorian and she explains how she lost the dark saber to Moff Gideon. The Rebellion arc with Saw was pretty good, setting up the Death Star and making me more excited to rewatch Rouge 1. I think I realized something watching The Occupation. I'm starting to find Ezra a bit annoying. He seems really whiney, and just the other characters a lot more interesting.
I loved what they did with Kallus in Season 4 so far, at least his look. What a change from Imperial to Rebel.
I loved what they did with Kallus in Season 4 so far, at least his look. What a change from Imperial to Rebel.
I don't think it's spoiling anything to say that you're now as up to date as anyone is regarding Bo-Katan and the Darksaber. All that we can infer from 'The Mandalorian' is that the uprising didn't go well and that the Empire came down on Mandalore like several billion tons of bricks and the survivors were scattered across the galaxy, hence: "the great purge". It also accounts for why Mandalorian warriors weren't a prominent part of the Rebel Alliance.
Yeah, it's an element that was often overlooked in the EU especially, but is being rather embraced by newer canon materials: it's a civil war, so of course a large number of rebel officers and pilots are going to be ex-Imperials. How could they not be? Where else would anyone get that experience? Hell even in the movies, Ben, Luke and Chewie are the only non-ex-Imperials in the bunch. Han attended an Imperial flight academy before being busted to an Imperial Army Trooper and deserting. Leia served in the Imperial Senate, and by extension so did the droids. Indeed, had things gone down a year or two later than Luke may have gotten around to applying to the academy and would have been a TIE pilot instead...or more likely a prisoner of the Inquisitorious.
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If you like the Ahsoka and the Rebels characters, then you might want to check out some of the Forces of Destiny shorts. It was a series of 2D animates shorts focused on different, mostly female, characters from all of movies, Clone Wars and Rebels. The whole series is 32 episodes, each between 3 and 5 minutes. The whole series is available on Disney+.
Here are the Ahsoka and Rebels episodes.
1x04: The Padawan Path - TCW era Ahsoka, Yoda & Anakin
1x06: The Imposter Inside - TCW era Padme & Ahsoka
1x08: Bounty of Trouble - Sabine & Leia
1x10: Teach You, I Will - TCW era Ahsoka, Anakin & Yoda
1x12: Newest Recruit - Sabine & Ketsu
1x16: Crash Course - Sabine, Ketsu, & Hera
2x01: Hasty Departure - Sabine & Hera
2x02: Unexpected Company - TCW era Ahsoka, Padme, & Anakin
2x10: Monster Misunderstanding - Queen Amidala (not sure when this takes place, other than at some point where Padme was Queen)
2x11: Art History - Sabine & Tristan
2x16: A Disarming Lesson - Rebels era Ahsoka & Ezra
Forces of Destiny also features the only onscreen appearances of Jyn and Qi'ra other than Rouge One and Solo.
Here are the Ahsoka and Rebels episodes.
1x04: The Padawan Path - TCW era Ahsoka, Yoda & Anakin
1x06: The Imposter Inside - TCW era Padme & Ahsoka
1x08: Bounty of Trouble - Sabine & Leia
1x10: Teach You, I Will - TCW era Ahsoka, Anakin & Yoda
1x12: Newest Recruit - Sabine & Ketsu
1x16: Crash Course - Sabine, Ketsu, & Hera
2x01: Hasty Departure - Sabine & Hera
2x02: Unexpected Company - TCW era Ahsoka, Padme, & Anakin
2x10: Monster Misunderstanding - Queen Amidala (not sure when this takes place, other than at some point where Padme was Queen)
2x11: Art History - Sabine & Tristan
2x16: A Disarming Lesson - Rebels era Ahsoka & Ezra
Forces of Destiny also features the only onscreen appearances of Jyn and Qi'ra other than Rouge One and Solo.
I was wondering about those force of Destiny Shorts. I probably won't watch Resistance, mainly because I saw the reviews and don't think it will be worth the time (And I might want to take a little break other than maybe rewatching Rouge 1), but the Force of Destiny stuff is only a a few minutes long each so seeing some of my favorite characters, like Ahsoka, isn't a bad idea.
'Resistance' was...not awful, I guess. It was even OK most of the time. Mostly though it was a squandered opportunity; the basic concept had WAY more potential than the execution. personally I don't regret watching it, but I also have zero inclination to ever revisit it, so make of that what you will.
'Forces of Destiny' was made purely to support a toyline that failed very quickly (supposedly the toys were poorly conceived and executed by the standards of the target demographic; turns out when you make dolls for girls that like to change the outfits, it helps if the dolls can actually change outfits.) That said, the shorts themselves are fun, neat little bits and worth a watch. They even got Hamill back to play RotJ era Luke, referenced some deleted scenes and connected a few lore dots.
'Forces of Destiny' was made purely to support a toyline that failed very quickly (supposedly the toys were poorly conceived and executed by the standards of the target demographic; turns out when you make dolls for girls that like to change the outfits, it helps if the dolls can actually change outfits.) That said, the shorts themselves are fun, neat little bits and worth a watch. They even got Hamill back to play RotJ era Luke, referenced some deleted scenes and connected a few lore dots.
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I'm into the Rebels on Lothal and Ezra running into the Loth-Wolves storyline of season 4. We just found out that Kanan's real name is Caleb, and there is an episode called "Dume" coming up. My question now is where did the whole Kanan Jarrus name come from, so I'm hoping they might tell me in that episode. As for "Kindrid", it looks like they are delving deep into the Mystery of Lothal, how they found Ezra, and Kanan even saying that the Phoenix (Previously Spectre) group has been drawn to that world. I'm liking where season 4 is going and the Wolves are beautiful creatures.
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