Spoilers The Acolyte

[M'rk son of Mogh]

I suspect some people just want SW to die.

That doesn't explain the Andor love, though.
I personally think they want Star Wars mostly in name, but to remove a lot of the familiar. They seem done with the Skywalkers, the lightsabers, etc, and want... different? That's just how it seems to me at least.

 

[Set Harth]

Well there were a total of 0 Skywalkers in Acolyte...

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Well there were a total of 0 Skywalkers in Acolyte...

It was one of many examples of "the familiar". Pretty much most things dealt with by the Skywalker movies, including Jedi and Padawan failed dynamics in general, which Acolyte definitely does. Andor, however, seems pretty much independent of all of that. And it seems to get more love than anything else. While look at the overall reception of things like Obi-Wan and just the talk of Rey.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I get the impression that maybe a lot of folks dislike how Jedi have been portrayed in a progressively negative light, starting from the very beginning and culminating in the recent installments.

• In the OT, Jedi were these noble people that were pretty much all wiped out by the Empire. Very few remain and they have been lionized in a very black-and-white good-vs-evil kind of way. They were heart-of-gold mythical heroes and we were supposed to revere them as such. Pure lawful-good.
• Then, the PT came around and we saw these actual Jedi that the characters have only heard stories about (which we as the audience experience through them), blinded by centuries of complacency (dare I say, outright laziness) who didn't see the storm coming and basically allowed the Republic to fall because of their smug arrogance and superiority complex. Only a small few realized there was something off but by the time the rest of them caught on, the die was cast. One of the greatest Jedi, Anakin Skywalker, turned to the Dark Side - something that was never supposed to happen. Some had doubts, but nobody really saw how bad it could get, not even Yoda.
• Then came the ST, where Luke basically wanted to let the Jedi Order die (in strange synchronicity with Kylo Ren's opinions on the matter) because it was old and tired and the history of the past. All this, despite the rising threat from Palpatine and the First Order.
• In between the main film blocks, we had shows like Rebels, Clone Wars, Ashoka, and others that had varying examples of the lesser-known Jedi. Most were trying to do the right thing, but sometimes get sidetracked to distraction. We were initially meant to think that highly-disciplined Jedi were immune to said-distractions, but in reality, they are <GASP!>fallible mortals</GASP!>. Ashoka was disillusioned by the Order after being expelled and we are meant to sympathize with her experience - the Jedi really aren't looking so good now.
• The Kenobi series was all over the map when it came to popularity, IIRC. A lot of people absolutely hated it. I kind of liked it. There's probably just some "shit, here we go again with the Jedi!" fatigue going on by this point.
• Then finally comes Acolyte, which thoroughly deconstructs Jedi mythology by making them absurdly feckless, bumbling, self-serving buffoons at best and duplicitous, corrupt, manipulative charlatans at worst.
• Rogue One, Mandolorian and Andor did relatively well, because they generally left the Jedi out of it. Yes, we had the occasional non-Jedi force-sensitive character pop up (which was curiously refreshing), but the story didn't center around their existence. It was a side-note, if anything at all.
• Yes, there are exceptions - Solo was generally disliked and Book of Boba Fett was considered "boring" by many, and there was sparse force-play used in those series, if at all. Again, I liked those too - yes, more so than Acolyte.

I think, in this day and age, people may be looking for simple heroes. We've been bludgeoned to death in the past several decades by anti-heroes and morally-ambiguous characters that were interesting and novel in the beginning (like the advent of Indiana Jones, for example) when used sparingly to tell a different kind of story, but when literally everyone becomes ultra-flawed and ethically troubled, the moorings get torn. It's supposed to be a kind of fantasy world - an escape from IRL. If we get too bogged down in the real world in our entertainment, we don't want to deal with it anymore.

My $.02 anywayz...

 

[fireproof78]

Then finally comes Acolyte, which thoroughly deconstructs Jedi mythology by making them absurdly feckless, bumbling, self-serving buffoons at best and duplicitous, corrupt, manipulative charlatans at worst.

Did we watch the same show?

I swear I don't.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Apparently not.

 

[fireproof78]

Apparently not.

Yeah. Acolyte is more like this to me:

We were initially meant to think that highly-disciplined Jedi were immune to said-distractions, but in reality, they are <GASP!>fallible mortals</GASP!>

And not the 3 Stooges of Star Wars.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Way to miss the point I was trying to make, but YMMV, IDIC, to each their own, and all that...

 

[Set Harth]

Rogue One, Mandolorian and Andor did relatively well, because they generally left the Jedi out of it.

Andor completely left the Jedi out of it. Any Force-users of any kind, in fact. At least so far. ( Rogue One, of course, profited from a certain ex-Jedi kicking Rebel butt. )

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yep. You're right - no force use in Andor at all...

Rogue One's final escape scene was remarkably epic and the quirky interactions between the blind force-user and the other characters gave that film a kind of warmth that seemed to really be missing in other installments.

 

[fireproof78]

Way to miss the point I was trying to make, but YMMV, IDIC, to each their own, and all that...

How else am I to interpret "buffoons?" Because 3 Stooges is first thing that springs to my mind.

Andor completely left the Jedi out of it. Any Force-users of any kind, in fact. At least so far. ( Rogue One, of course, profited from a certain ex-Jedi kicking Rebel butt. )

Worst scene in the film and nearly dragged it down.

 

[Set Harth]

Probably saved the ending imo.

 

[fireproof78]

"We did it, Darth, we saved the pig and the frog."

"Well it was too late to save the movie"*


*Credit to Muppet Treasure Island.

 

[137th Gebirg]

How else am I to interpret "buffoons?" Because 3 Stooges is first thing that springs to my mind.

Try harder.

Worst scene in the film and nearly dragged it down.

 

[fireproof78]

Try harder.

View attachment 41502

Today is not my day try to harder. Too much drama in real life. bandwidth full.

The Vader scene felt like it was from a completely different movie.

 

[Gaith]

“I pored through a lot of different iterations of fan art and ship art and fan theories and things that were just so beautiful and filled my heart with joy,” Stenberg said. “And I just want to let those people know out there who supported us in that way, and supported us vocally in the face of all of the vitriol that we received, and the kind of the targeted attack I would say we received by the alt-right, just that you were deeply loved and appreciated, and it made this job all the worthwhile for me and it made all of the challenging elements of it completely worthwhile for me.”​

I'd be a lot more impressed with this statement if she'd also made any kind of acknowledgement towards fans that approached and viewed the show with an open mind, didn't quite love it for thoughtful reasons, and perhaps even offered well-intentioned and constructive criticism online. But, by gushing over her/her show's fans, accusing critics of being small-minded and hateful, and refusing to acknowledge anyone in between, she's dealing in absolutes. And don't we know who the only group that deals in absolutes is?

(BTW, her language that more than a little Trumpian - "My voters are the most beautiful people, the other side's voters are nasty and hateful and horrible people, but I'm a loving and good person, because I love the people who give me money.")

 

[Set Harth]

That's Rogue One, not Andor.

There is obvious Force use in Rogue One.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So, it is, deleted. Got my wires crossed again.

Eventually, I will learn to pay full attention to what I am posting!

 

[fireproof78]

BTW, her language that more than a little Trumpian - "My voters are the most beautiful people, the other side's voters are nasty and hateful and horrible people, but I'm a loving and good person, because I love the people who give me money.")

Ridiculous. Humans say these things all the time. The people who agree with me are great and those who like the things I don't are disrespectful, angry and stupid. Seen it around these boards way too often.

 

[JD]

I can't imagine all of the people who disliked it were for political reasons, or that it had anything to do with people not liking the Jedi any more. It did have a different style and approach to it than the rest of the franchise, and I think that just turned a lot of people off. And I think a lot of people went into this expecting this to show us the Jedi at the best during the height of their power, and were disappointed when they were presented in a more negative light. I enjoyed it, but even I was a little shocked and disappointed with how it presented the Jedi.