Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Trek!

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Eh, you need only look at this thread. A few posters expressed their disdain at JJ Abrams's "style", and got piled on with a bunch of insults from his cheerleaders, telling them to grow up, sit down, shut up, and enjoy whatever is served because it's Star Trek. We've also had a bunch of threads that amount to "Screw the haters!".

So you just dislike having your opinion of Abrams and his work challenged? Because that is all that is going on here.

I just don't get what people feel it achieves. JJ Abrams doesn't care about you, he's got your money and has moved on to Star Wars. Unless the move inconveniences him, in which case he'll apparently come crawling back, asking for your money again in a few years time.

Gene Roddenberry didn't care about me either and wrung every dollar out of Star Trek that he possibly could.

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Which is fine, everyone has their own threshold for enjoyment of material. But quit trying to look down on others because they enjoy things that you don't.

It makes you immensely unlikable.

Eh, I get shit on for not enjoying this crap all the time. Been called a virgin, homosexual, or whatever, and I'm supposed to just take it on the chin. Yet, whenever I decide to bite back the Abrams fans act ridiculously defensive.

And calling Abrams a "vile toad", especially from someone who claims to be such a student of film history, is just hilarious.

It's my opinion, and the fact he has his own personal online goon squad that will treat any detractor with horrific rudeness does nothing to endear the man to me. He's a hack, and an unpleasant one at that as his constant insistence that he doesn't make his films for Star Trek geeks exemplifies. The fact that people he laughs at and mocks will defend him with such furor, is utterly absurd.

A Star Trek fan page on Facebook just shared this story and the general reaction in the comments was "Thank fuck!" from Star Wars fans, so I'm far, far from alone. People are gonna have to put up with Abrams hate as long as his films are still remembered. Best to accept it, and not feel the need to pile on others for not liking a film you like.

At this point, there is no way one can have a real conversation with you over the man, since you're opinion of him seems to be based on what people on the internet say.

And my god, can we get over the "I didn't make this movie for Star Trek fans, but for movie fans"....THANK GOD. That's what any director would have done, given the property. You have to make a movie for the general audience, not just a select fan base, especially in the case of Star Trek. The core Star Trek fan base is what went out to see Nemesis, and watched Enterprise, and we saw how those did. Plus, I've seen so many online proposals from fans, over what should have been the future of the franchise, and while a few are decent, most are some of the most fanwankish material ever written. That would NEVER work as a mainstream film.

Also, those same people who complain on Facebook or whatever, those are the same people, like yourself, who view Trek as some grand philosophical debate. While it's had it's moments of that, for the most part, it isn't, especially when if comes to the feature films. People are looking through their rosy colored glasses when it comes to older Star Trek. Plus in Paramount's view, if they lose one of those people, but gain 10 new people that will see the movie, then it's a win. Just as you n say that there are Abrams detractors and we need to take it, well guess what, his vision of the franchise is here to stay for a while, and no amount of complaining from you or others is going to chance that. You need to accept that as well. Stop playing the victim card, no one is personally attacking you, though you make it hard not to mock your opinion sometimes with the hyperbole that you write.

Plus, you never even have stated what is is about Abrams directorial style that you hate so much. It's always just "it's too much action, he's a hack, blah blah blah."

 

[DalekJim]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

So you just dislike having your opinion of Abrams and his work challenged?

No, I dislike people being so rude about it. I've had to go through this same thing on a Transformers message board in 2007, when all the Michael Bay fans were like "Can't you just turn your mind off and enjoy it?". It's just.. not an excuse for me. Star Trek taught me to always demand better, I guess. And this shit just won't do. Star Trek Into Darkness isn't an awful film, it's a mediocre action movie that follows all the tired tropes in an acceptable enough manner. But that just isn't what I want from the only live-action Star Trek being produced.

Gene Roddenberry didn't care about me either and wrung every dollar out of Star Trek that he possibly could.

I do think Roddenberry had the advantage of being a fan of thoughtful science-fiction though. He never seemed to want to make Star Trek in to a mindless action franchise. This is the guy that gave us The Motion Picture. Roddenberry was obsessed with money too, but at least I liked the products he offered as TOS and TNG are among my fave shows.

The core Star Trek fan base is what went out to see Nemesis, and watched Enterprise, and we saw how those did.

I really like the final 2 seasons of Enterprise, and Nemesis is a mediocre action movie. Just like Star Trek Into Darkness. There's really no huge difference in vision or approach there. Both are duller Wrath of Khan remakes.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

No, I dislike people being so rude about it. I've had to go through this same thing on a Transformers message board in 2007, when all the Michael Bay fans were like "Can't you just turn your mind off and enjoy it?". It's just.. not an excuse for me. Star Trek taught me to always demand better, I guess. And this shit just won't do. Star Trek Into Darkness isn't an awful film, it's a mediocre action movie that follows all the tired tropes in an acceptable enough manner. But that just isn't what I want from the only live-action Star Trek being produced.

As far as rudeness goes, you might want to look in the mirror. Is it really necessary to say "this shit won't do". You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I do think Roddenberry had the advantage of being a fan of thoughtful science-fiction though. He never seemed to want to make Star Trek in to a mindless action franchise. This is the guy that gave us The Motion Picture. Roddenberry was obsessed with money too, but at least I liked the products he offered as TOS and TNG are among my fave shows.

Roddenberry nearly killed Star Trek with The Motion Picture. I, personally, love the film. But I also understand that it's not everyone's cup o' tea. Trying to insult someone because they disagree is just pointless and isn't going to suddenly going to make folks see things your way.

 

[trevanian]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I'd say this quote 100% sums up why some find JJ Abrams's fanbase to be depressing. It's just.. so aggressively anti-thinking.

Or maybe we're just 100% pro-fun.

Sometimes people like to have fun, they like to enjoy what they're doing. I go to the movies to have fun. You might want to try it sometime.

Just to show you how "aggressively anti-thinking" I am, I just finished Manifest: Time by Stephen Baxter and am currently reading Manifest: Space.

But would you likely be appreciative of, say, a Glen Larson-type's attempt to put the Baxter on film?

It's fine to like dumb stuff along with good stuff. But for example, my go-to for stupid in movies is ACTION JACKSON. It not only is dumb, it is deliberately dumb, almost reveling in its stupidity. Photographically it is nearly as horrid as Abrams, with so much smoke in the air -- the 80s equivalent to these damned lens flares, though usually not as ridiculous -- it obscures what you really want to see (like Sharon Stone & Vanity.)

But if ACTION were a sequel to SHAFT (which for its time had some worth to it) I'd be offended beyond belief at what had been done, because why bother making it a SHAFT movie when you're going so far afield and just riffing on it? Why not call it something else? (well the reality is that you don't get an audience without it being a sequel, which is probably partly why ACTION never got one. and you wouldn't greenlight a SF movie like 09 or ID without it being linked to a presold commodity.)

 

[Set Harth]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I'm sure this will all blow over soon enough.

It's not about the UK, it's just that Mark Hamill got blinded by a lens flare and accidentally hit JJ in the nuts with a prop saber.

 

[DalekJim]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

As far as rudeness goes, you might want to look in the mirror. Is it really necessary to say "this shit won't do". You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

I don't see how that was rude to anybody.

Roddenberry nearly killed Star Trek with The Motion Picture. I, personally, love the film. But I also understand that it's not everyone's cup o' tea.

I really like The Motion Picture a great deal. Obviously a lot of people find that type of film boring, like a lot also find 2001: A Space Odyssey or Bladerunner boring. I personally prefer the slower, more cerebral style in my sci-fi films. The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script, with a less frantic OTT editing style so it's much more pleasant to watch.

Trying to insult someone because they disagree is just pointless

Well, I feel the Abrams cheerleaders should keep this in mind next time they pile on me, because sometimes I might bite.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

But would you likely be appreciative of, say, a Glen Larson-type's attempt to put the Baxter on film?

I honestly don't know. But I do know that if I didn't like it, I wouldn't spend years on end criticizing it. I'd simply move on to something else that I enjoy.

Continuing to call the creators names and calling their work shit just seems immature.

 

[DalekJim]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I honestly don't know. But I do know that if I didn't like it, I wouldn't spend years on end criticizing it. I'd simply move on to something else that I enjoy.

Well, it seems like you plan on spending years on end critcising me and my posts, so that's not much better a plan, chief.

 

[shapeshifter]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Doctor Smith - can you say a few words on behalf of all anti-Abrams Trekkers?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwwcCpa2Ag[/yt]

 

[DalekJim]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I'm more of a Blake's 7 man.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I honestly don't know. But I do know that if I didn't like it, I wouldn't spend years on end criticizing it. I'd simply move on to something else that I enjoy.

Well, it seems like you plan on spending years on end critcising me and my posts, so that's not much better a plan, chief.

Correcting misinformation and hyperbole isn't criticism.

 

[Set Harth]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I wish some cheerleaders would pile on me.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I wish some cheerleaders would pile on me.

I do too. Though my wife may not approve.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

I'm not much for Deep Space Nine and Voyager, so I don't go rushing into those forums to tell the fans of those shows how shitty they are.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script...

No. Wrath of Khan is riddled with nonsense, from the magical Genesis Device to embarrasingly and implausibly stupid codes ("Hours will seem like days... if we go by the book"), the Reliant somehow mis-counting planets in the Ceti Alpha system (how does one even reach Ceti Alpha VI when the system now has only five planets?) and a "superhuman genius" who is defeated because he can't comprehend that space is three dimensional.

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.

 

[DalekJim]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.

 

[mos6507]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

quit trying to look down on others because they enjoy things that you don't.

It's also annoying trying to convince someone to like something just because it's popular or made a boatload of money.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

Especially as I view JJ Abrams as a shyster milking Star Trek for gold coins. It's like I'm being asked to cheer while one of my favourite things is exploited in a degrading way, for the throwaway amusement of people I totally lack respect for.

I don't like JJ Abrams' Trek, but I completely disagree with your personal assessment of the man. I have no doubt that Abrams and everyone working with him on these films is passionate about what they do. I just don't think the movies are any good.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Terrible News, Abrahms might be quitting Star Wars to return to Tr

The Wrath of Khan was an action/adventure film, but had a very intelligent script...

No. Wrath of Khan is riddled with nonsense, from the magical Genesis Device to embarrasingly and implausibly stupid codes ("Hours will seem like days... if we go by the book"), the Reliant somehow mis-counting planets in the Ceti Alpha system (how does one even reach Ceti Alpha VI when the system now has only five planets?) and a "superhuman genius" who is defeated because he can't comprehend that space is three dimensional.

Wrath of Khan is a fun movie, but to call it intelligent sci-fi is ridiculous.

Those rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

I like for Star Trek to be fun, first and foremost. If something isn't fun to watch then what's the point in wasting time with it? Life's short, I want to enjoy it.