Spoilers Supernatural Season 15--the final season

[thribs]

Yeah, Monday is annoying since I already have a show I watch then.
I did like the explanation into how the other Gods came to be. That humans inadvertently created them by worshipping multiple things and so he made them so they could take the blame when things didn’t go their way.

 

[Farscape One]

The move to Mondays now has the show almost certainly be the ONLY series to air prime time on EVERY weeknight, Monday-Friday, at some point during its run. Having a 15 season run alone is an incredible achievement, but what makes it even more impressive is that it has bounced from one to another the entire time. I doubt any other series now would have that kind of lifespan and bouncing around.

(And we'll likely not see another genre series go 15 seasons again regardless. DOCTOR WHO may be the only exception, but definitely not episode count, especially if another 16 year dry run happens in the near future. SUPERNATURAL will end up with nearly as many episodes as the entire franchise of STARGATE shows. Except DOCTOR WHO, I don't think another franchise has that many episodes without spinoffs.)

Speaking of series longevity, you have to give Jensen and Jared a lot of credit simply on the fortitude it takes to be in EVERY episode like they have for as long as they have. Most actors tend to start burning out of a show after 4 or 5 years... and they are usually part of an ensemble cast. Not to mention the massive amount of night shoots they did for all these years. I've been working overnight for almost 8 years, with about a 1 year break in between that as day shift. That is far more grueling than people think, so I tip my hat to the boys. And to the production crew, because I know a LOT of them have been there for most, if not all, of its run.

 

[Farscape One]

Brent Stait, otherwise known as Rev Bem from ANDROMEDA, was here! He's been on a couple episodes before... one time in season 6 (half the ANDROMEDA cast appeared that season at one time or another) and all the way back in season 1 when he called out Dean's alias as "Isn't that the drummer from Led Zeppelin?". It was good to see him again.

This episide posed an interesting moral question... do the boys really have the right to take on other people's fortune to help themselves out, even though they do things for a far greater good? I know they felt bad after what happened with rodeo guy, so that must have entered their minds.

I was surprised by the ending... she actually helped them out. I guess not all the pagan gods are bad. It makes me wonder if Eleanor, back in season 6, was some kind of pagan god. We never do find out what happens to them when they are killed.

A very interesting notion on their origins, by the way. Humans indirectly created the pagan gods simply because Chuck couldn't stand not being the one they worshipped. It really does play into what Amara said about him before with his ego. And it does fit extremely well into his personality of creating stories... the pagan gods and mythology is a VERY rich source of countless epic tales and stories. I really loved how they wove that into the series here.

So it looks like the last Grigori was killed. We haven't seen them in a long time. The idea of them actually creeps me out a bit, so I'm glad they are gone.

And Jack is back! Rather ominous, what he said. Angel hearts are the beginning?! He's already extremely powerful, and adding angel hearts obviously must be quite a boost. What the hell else can he need that the BEGINNING is eating angel hearts?

It leads me to wonder... since we see a pagan god here, could the next phase be all the remaining ones? We've seen a lot of them killed during the series, but there are certainly many, many others still living off scraps, as Fortuna said.

Another thing... exactly how powerful IS Billie as Death? Chuck was supposedly not able to have any sway or power in the Empty, but Billie is able to do whatever there? We know Death was immensely old, possibly as old as Chuck. Could he have actually been around BEFORE Chuck and Amara? And the creature in the Empty... we still don't know what he is.

A thought occurs to me... could the creature there BE Death? Either that's where he went after Dean killed him, or maybe what we saw as Death was not actually him, but more like an avatar of the Empty guy? I find I hope this is the case, because that means we might see him again. Julian Richings was one of THE best casting choices the show ever did. He was totally perfect as Death. Hell, he was the ONLY entity that Dean ever showed deference to or respected.

With only 9 episodes left in the series, we should be getting the answers at a quick pace. The season has been fantastic so far, and I look forward to it coming back for the final stretch.

 

[Tuskin38]

Another thing... exactly how powerful IS Billie as Death? Chuck was supposedly not able to have any sway or power in the Empty, but Billie is able to do whatever there? We know Death was immensely old, possibly as old as Chuck. Could he have actually been around BEFORE Chuck and Amara? And the creature in the Empty... we still don't know what he is.

Death said he couldn't remember who was older, God or him.

 

[RJDiogenes]

North! To Alaska!

This was a great episode. We've got a very secluded operation here, where one of the forgotten gods makes her living-- of course, she's probably got a few of them around the world-- that is completely off the grid. No record of this in Hunter lore. Which again makes it curious that Garth somehow knew about it. But still, it gave the episode a nicely extra mysterious feel, almost like a Twilight Zone episode. And the boys lost, because the house always wins, but they still prevailed, because they impressed the Goddess of Luck-- she thought there were no more heroes in the world. But there are. This makes me feel more than ever that they will not beat Chuck through magic or superior power, but by changing his mind.

And the real Jack is finally back. Billie has a plan to kill Chuck, which-- typically-- involves grossness. This is really interesting-- and I can't wait to hear Billie's explanation for why Death wants God dead-- perhaps it would just be the crowning achievement for such a being-- but I think it will ultimately fail. And I'd be happy to see Jack take Chuck's place in our universe, despite my long-held belief that the boys will take over. But after all this, it really needs to be a moral victory, not just a matter of firepower-- especially since only Amara really has that potential anyway.

 

[Farscape One]

Something I forgot to mention before, but was talking to my wife about.

It makes perfect sense Chuck created the pagan gods for one simple reason that has been around since the show first had them appear.

There is lore on how to kill pagan gods. It's not totally easy to find, but not that hard either. The boys rarely have trouble finding the kill solution. So where did that information come from and how would anyone know how to kill one unless they already killed it, which would render the point moot since that would mean they are dead?

The only viable answer is Chuck put the information out there, and he would know because he created them.

In the back of my mind all these years, I always did find it odd that the kill solution to them was just lying about. And each of them is a different one for god... no "one kill fits all".

Very smart way to tie up a thread that's been around since almost the beginning of the show.

 

[RJDiogenes]

That's a good point, like cheat codes. Probably something he dictated to Metacarpal back in the Old Testament Era or something. Or another possibility is that it's information that somehow migrated over from those "previous draft" universes where they figured out how to kill Pagan Gods.

 

[Farscape One]

You mean Metatron? Exactly, and the knowledge got disseminated in pieces everywhere.

I don't buy that it came from other universes... I think Chuck did it himself. And the reason was because he was forced to create them because humans worshipped them, but all the while hating what he created... the pagan gods... so he would give out the kill switch for each of them.

And also because there are way too many gods for the answers to them all just finding their way to us.

And the pagan gods all seemed to require such specific things to kill them versus what kills ordinary monsters... like beheading vampires, silver to the heart of werewolves, etc... that to just happen upon the right combination for all of them doesn't quite ring right.

Chuck seems the most logical answer.



Side note: I think I have mentioned this before, but I think I figured out the 5 things the Colt will not work on. It's not 5 specific monsters, but 5 KINDS of monsters... or rather, 5 CREATORS.

We know for a fact it didn't work on Lucifer... that means Archangels, since he created demons. Chuck is certainly another, because... Chuck.

The other three? What have we seen that has actually created other beings, or species?

Death... Reapers. Not including the other Horsemen, because we never actually saw them create anything. They were more like agents of chaos... and Death was far more powerful and older than them.

Eve... all monsters.

Fifth one... I don't remember if there was another creator of beings at the moment.

 

[Snaploud]

Fifth one... I don't remember if there was another creator of beings at the moment.

Jack could create angels out of human souls, so you might be able to add Nephilim to the list. It's really no different than Lucifer turning human souls into demons.

Are we counting the Darkness (Chuck's sister) as being the same type as Chuck? We never technically saw her create any beings, but I doubt that gun would have done her any damage.

I wonder if The Empty/Shadow has any creations.

 

[Farscape One]

I definitely would put Amara as the same type as Chuck, despite us never seeing her create.

Good point about Jack, I forgot he could do that. However, he is not a typical nephilim... the only one of his kind, in fact. He was born from a human and archangel, and the others... though we've only seen one, as far as I know... were born from a regular angel. I don't think they had this in mind when talking about the '5 things'. It's possible, though.

Now The Empty creature, THAT's a possibility. I wonder if Lucifer knew about him before when he made that statement. If so, then it's a strong possibility.

 

[tnpir4002]

I definitely would put Amara as the same type as Chuck, despite us never seeing her create.

Remember that in season 11 Lucifer told us that Amara and Chuck were equals, in terms of raw power...so even if we haven't seen it happen, she (according to Lucifer) has the ability.

I wonder if Lucifer knew about [the Empty creature] before when he made that statement. If so, then it's a strong possibility.

It's possible that Chuck (or someone) literally said at one point "there are five things in all of Creation that that gun can't kill, so be glad you're one of them." He may not have known exactly what the other four were, but knowing him it likely would've been enough to know he was safe.

 

[Snaploud]

I'm still not clear on how there can be multiple similar Earths with only one Darkness (Chuck's sister). The Mark is a pretty big part of Lucifer's story (as it supposedly makes him turn crazy), and the Mark only existed as a way to keep Chuck's sister trapped.

I'm also unclear whether or not there are multiple Deaths. Did Billie take control of all the reapers in the multiverse, or is she just responsible for one Earth?

And are there multiple empty/shadows, or or is there just one empty with supernatural creatures from the entire multiverse?

 

[auntiehill]

I'm still not clear on how there can be multiple similar Earths with only one Darkness (Chuck's sister). The Mark is a pretty big part of Lucifer's story (as it supposedly makes him turn crazy), and the Mark only existed as a way to keep Chuck's sister trapped.

I'm also unclear whether or not there are multiple Deaths. Did Billie take control of all the reapers in the multiverse, or is she just responsible for one Earth?

And are there mutiple empty/shadows, or or is there just one empty with supernatural creatures from the entire multiverse?

Good questions. We can only hope that some of that gets addressed before the last episode airs.

 

[auntiehill]

Supernatural returns tonight in its new Monday timeslot! In this episode, “Galaxy Brain,” Dean (Jensen Ackles), Sam (Jared Padalecki), Castiel (Misha Collins) and Jack (Alexander Calvert), with Sheriff Jody Mills (Kim Rhodes), are tasked with a dangerous rescue mission. Billie (Lisa Berry), a reaper, decides to visit the bunker.

Can't wait!

 

[tnpir4002]

It's weird tuning into SPN on a Monday night...but who cares, new episode!

 

[thribs]

So they just had their crisis episode. A lot simpler than the ArrowVerse’s.

 

[auntiehill]

Poor Radio Shed Guy.


So, one plotline closed. What's next? Another comedic episode. Hmph. Was kinda hoping we'd go back to being knee-deep in the Chuckpocalypse.

 

[thribs]

The trailer implies that could be a comedy but there’s no reason to think it will be.

 

[auntiehill]

The trailer implies that could be a comedy but there’s no reason to think it will be.

That's true. There's no telling where the story will go.

Btw: news that Supernatural had to shut down production, with only two more episodes left to film.

 

[thribs]

True but CW said those episodes will be made no matter. They’re not going to be dropped.