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Spoilers Supernatural Season 13

Yeah, what Kevin did was pretty much what the suicide angel bombers of Metatron did at the end of season 9. If anyone can weaponize an angel thing and turn it against humans, it would be that Michael.

It actually makes me wonder if the Lucifer of that world was relatively nice.
 
Been too ill to comment much, but I did watch last night's episode. Kind of an odd mis-mash of styles--bad dick jokes paired with death and tears? Um.... OK. I liked the end--a real feeling of jeopardy there, but it did feel a bit rushed.

So, how was Luci able to lose that much grace and still have power again? And yet, he was weak enough to get pushed into the rift by Rowena, but strong enough to bring back Sam. Huh.

Looking forward to seeing how Jack responds to Luci.
 
So, how was Luci able to lose that much grace and still have power again? And yet, he was weak enough to get pushed into the rift by Rowena, but strong enough to bring Sam back?

Luci told Sam, right after he brought him back, that he snacked on a bunch of Michael’s angles before catching up.

Q2
 
I wonder if alt Michael also snacks on angels for extra juice. It wouldn't surprise me if he had eaten his universe's Lucifer, Raphael, and Gabriel.
 
Leaving Lucifer alone with only Rowena for a babysitter had to be the worst idea of all time. Why did they let him wake up? They could have given him an IV drip of that stuff that knocked him out to begin with. And why didn't they use any of that Grace to power up Gabriel? Come on, boys!

On the plus side, Lucy's escape saved Sam's bacon after he got munched by feral Vamps. I wonder what happened to him when he died, though. Where did he go? Can you go to Heaven in a dimension where you were never born? This is an important philosophical question!

But now the gang is all reunited-- the Winchester Boys, Mom Winchester, Castiel, and Jack. And Gabriel for good measure. What will happen now? Lucifer versus Alternate Michael? Jack versus Alternate Michael? Lucifer and Jack versus Alternate Michael? I was leaning toward Jack sacrificing himself to destroy Alternate Michael, but after Lucifer's brief stint on the Heavenly Throne, I'm thinking that he and Jack will take over Alternate Heaven after consigning Alternate Michael to Alternate Hell, setting up a weird Alternate Status Quo.

And what of wild card Rowena? She seems to be on the verge of doing something noble for a change.

Been too ill to comment much, but I did watch last night's episode.
Sorry to hear that. I hope you're feeling better.
 
I think Jack is going to eventually be put in charge of Heaven. Where he will also get to meet his mom for the first time. Maybe Gabriel and Rowena will find themselves running Hell. What if you had someone in Hell who didn't want to run the place like a cruel overload. A methphor for prison reform? I think they set up a possible romance for them.


Jason
 
I think Jack is going to eventually be put in charge of Heaven. Where he will also get to meet his mom for the first time. Maybe Gabriel and Rowena will find themselves running Hell. What if you had someone in Hell who didn't want to run the place like a cruel overload. A methphor for prison reform? I think they set up a possible romance for them.


Jason

Technically, they already had prison reform when Crowley replaced the physical torture with standing in line for eternity.

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I know trying to untangle the mythology can be a futile effort, but I'm having trouble with something.

In season 4, Anna extracted her grace, and became entirely human (but didn't die), and from all appearances didn't suffer any ill effects. And once her grace was restored, all was well again; she seemed to have seraph-level powers (they hadn't mentioned seraphim yet, but in retrospect that's what she seemed to be...I could say something about how she seemed more powerful than Cas, a regular-tier angel at that point, but that's a rabbit hole I won't go down just yet).
In season 9, Cas stole Theo's grace to restore his first-tier angel powers. We know this because when Cas blew in the door at the bunker to rescue Metatron, and also when he blew in the doors at Randy's house to rescue Claire, we saw him tip forward as if he'd just overexerted himself (something we'd never seen before). Eventually, that grace started burning out, presumably because it wasn't Cas's, and when it ran out, Metatron said that Cas would die. The season 9 finale suggested (when Cas healed Gadreel) that every time he used his angel powers, it drained the grace he had left.
In season 10, after a recharge from Adina (courtesy of Crowley), he still didn't have wings but was a full-fledged seraph again. Problem solved, and we haven't had to worry since (so far as I know), although "not a lot but enough" from Metatron left a loose thread.
Now, fast forward to season 13. "Devil's Bargain" seemed to suggest that Lucifer was almost out of grace, and was therefore nearly human (midway through the episode he claimed he was hungry). I could accept that losing his grace would have this impact and wouldn't kill him given the events of season 4, but I didn't see him using his powers (i.e. draining his grace a la season 9's finale)...so why was it diminishing? (I get that this provided a nice little setup for the Anael story, but still.) Speaking of Anael, the same episode would have us believe that angelic grace can self-replenish, kind of like how our blood supply works (we don't know what type of angel Anael is, but whether she's a first-tier angel or a seraphim, it should be true for Cas and the archangels as well). For good measure, that was reiterated in this week's show, which reminded us that all it takes is time.

So...help me understand this. When an angel is at full power and using their own grace, there never seemed to be any limit to the power they could expend. I'm pretty sure we've seen Cas resurrect people before, so I don't understand why he couldn't have saved Sam this week (Gabriel I get, but not Cas)--after all, Gadreel did it (twice) during season 9, first in "I'm No Angel" (Castiel) and then in "Slumber Party" (Charlie). Both were done after losing his wings, and while he was supposedly recovering from The Fall. And even without his wings, Cas was able to effortlessly heal Charlie, and he appeared very menacing when they were ambushed by the government in "LOTUS."

The only time there seems to be a problem is when an angel loses some or all of their grace. I can accept that stolen grace wouldn't self-replenish. What I have an issue with is that I'd like to think the two-and-a-half seasons since Cas got his own grace back would be more than enough for it to fully replenish. I can accept that he can't teleport without wings, since they still haven't reversed Metatron's spell--but the fact that we saw Gadreel resurrect people (twice!) while at less than full power, makes me sharply question his explanation that "we weren't strong enough" to bring Sam back this week. Gabriel, yes, I get, but not Cas. And why was Lucifer running out when I didn't see him using any of his powers that I saw? He should've been able to lay low and let his grace recharge, but the implication seemed to be that he was basically human with glowing eyes at one point.

Am I making sense here?
 
^
I believe the answer is two words: bad writing. I think that the angels, as they were first explained to us, are just too powerful so, in order to drag out the drama, they come up with sorry excuses as to why they can't help or interfere in certain circumstances. Otherwise, someone would ALWAYS be able to save Sam & Dean and there really wouldn't be any suspense at all. It's sort of become the opposite of "hand-waving"--the type of thing you see in shows with powerful magic and/or super-advanced tech. "We survived sinking to the bottom of frozen lake with all our armor on, and then we walked 5 miles in snow but we're all perfectly OK, because of..*hand-waving*...ta-da!"


ANYWAY..

vHnb5qh.gif


A new episode tonight! I'm hoping for a minimum of flip-side *hand-waving.*
 
HOLY CRAP!!! Literally. We just met Dark Castiel!!!

/I would love to know why Apocalypse!Cas speaks with a Russian accent.
 
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Did he have an accent? Sounded like it but I’m not sure

Also Sam, that is going to come back and bite you
 
Did he have an accent? Sounded like it but I’m not sure

It wasn't hammy and over the top, but it was definitely there. (It actually got less noticeable as the episode wore on, but then when he and Prime!Cas were face to face, it got noticeable again.)
 
So....alt-Cas was Russian? WTF?

Luci actually shed a tear when Gabe called him on his shit.

Poor Gabe. Again. :(

Thanks to preview, we know a major plot point for the next episode.
 
As for tonight's ending...hoo boy.

So, in order, we had:
  • Apocalypse!Michael show up. (Nice threat display with his wings...it's weird seeing astral projection like that without a surface like a wall to project onto.)
  • Lucifer display some actual archangel power by throwing that energy blast at Michael.
  • Michael look at Gabriel in recognition, but also disbelief.
  • Gabriel (and Michael) *both* break out their archangel blades. Cue Big Damn Heroes moment from Gabriel.
  • Knife fight between Michael and Gabriel, with predictable results...Gabriel dead. (Again.) Unfortunately, this time it looks like it's for good.
  • Lucifer abandoned in Apocalypse World as Michael (again) fails to make it through the rift.
  • Dealmaking between Michael and Lucifer.
Okay, so...I'm really hoping Gabriel isn't really!dead this time, but I have this awful feeling like he's not just merely dead, but really and sincerely dead. If I'm wrong, there'll be much rejoicing, but if I'm right...much sadness. I do know one thing, I'm sick of fights with angel blades; the moment between Lucifer and Michael when they were actually using powers instead of knives was actually a breath of fresh air. Ashamed to say it but fights with angel blades have a way of all turning out the same, and it's gotten old.

Not sure what to make of the promo for next week's show, but the sight of Dean flying through the air (at Michael or Lucifer, I couldn't tell) at someone bolsters my hope that it's Prime!Michael, back after all these years.

Only one thing about this bothers me. If they'd wanted to get Apocalypse!Michael, they shouldn't have let Jack go through first. He could have saved his Uncle Gabe from that fight, if nothing else by knocking Michael back with telekinesis. (Yes, I know, Sam and Lucifer both gave Rousing Speeches, but still, this felt wrong.)
 
Poor Lucy. I get why Sam did that but I truly felt like Gab got through to him.
Speaking of which, I doubt Gab is dead.
 
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