Stupid Stuff in TNG

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by gakelly, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    Cause and Effect has always seemed like the most ridiculous show out there.
    The Bozeman (the ship the Enterprise kept colliding with) has been trapped in a loop for 90 years, but only has been colliding with the Enterprise for 17 days.
    Why is the Bozeman trapped in the time loop in the first place?
     
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  2. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wesley the boy Saviour
     
  3. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    I always thought the timeloop was created by the crash which occurred right after the Bozeman was accidentally transported to the future. It wasn't stuck in a loop by itself for ninety years.
     
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  4. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hmmm, his arm traveled only a few inches and it didn't continue for a matter of seconds — only a split second even from Picard's perspective. Without time for heat to accumulate to the point of ignition, would it still work that way? I have no idea.

    Anyway, I'd think he'd still get the equivalent of severe windburn along with a broken or wrenched arm.
     
  5. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've thought about that and in fact, Picard shouldn't have been able to push Worf's arm aside. What happens when a bullet touches you? It goes through you, while the rest of you remains pretty much where it was. Picard's own arm was moving faster than a bullet, in fact, his own body just by moving around would create winds comparable to those created by a bomb going off. Everything around Picard should be destroyed as if a bomb went off near it. There should be nothing left but ruins and human goo in his path!! Unless we're in a fantasy world where only part of the physical laws applies, in which case... ANYTHING GOES!!!
     
  6. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It makes sense if you assume the causality loop exists in both times simultaneously. Essentially, the Bozeman has done exactly the same thing the Enterprise did in exactly the same place, except 80 years earlier, and once they're both trapped inside, that relationship to time isn't the same. In other words, it doesn't subscribe to the passage of time that the ships do. So the Bozeman has only been in there 17 days as well. They just have the added disadvantage of having gotten trapped in it 80 years prior, & thus loses the most time, once it has been escaped. Basically, they landed in a time anomaly that looped them through the same half day a bunch of times (Just like the D) but then when they get out, now it's 80 years later.

    The tough thing to get a handle on is why is the collision the reset? Isn't it a causality loop with or without that? I have to think that if the Enterprise crew had figured out the correct maneuver the very 1st time, it would've been like nothing happened to them, but the Bozeman might still have been transported to 80 years later, even though nothing really transpired. Thus making it less a causality loop, & more just a temporal rift, like the one that brings the 1701-C into their time. The collision is what must make it a loop
     
  7. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If we assume that altered rates of time can be treated exactly the same as changes in speed, then yes. There are other perspectives. For example, warp drive can effectively move you faster than light, but it does so by stretching space instead of increasing your speed — if you were really moving that fast, we'd see some of the same things you described.

    Stretching time may work similarly, meaning you don't get the same transfer of kinetic energy. Not that I can explain how it works instead. I guess ANYTHING GOES!!!
     
  8. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    About 'Timescape' and Worf's hand....

    Picard was "wearing" a thingy that kept him in normal time. When he touched Worf's hand, why didn't the field include Worf too, Picard did move his hand in Picard time? Why didn't the "timefields" continue from their legs to the floor, walls, people and so on?
     
  9. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Same thing when they disintegrate someone with a phaser. Why isn't part of what the person is touching disintegrated as well? Like the ground under their feet for example... why would the disintegration process limit itself to the body of the person? I mean if you touch someone who's being electrocuted, for example, you'll be electrocuted as well.
     
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  10. gakelly

    gakelly Commander Red Shirt

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    The equipment they took with them shouldn't have worked, because the equipment wasn't enveloped in the armband thingy. Just because they beamed over and the tricorders and phasers were in their holsters doesn't mean it was in the Picard time frame.
     
  11. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    That's a fundamental issue of most sci-fi and fantasy. Why does 'phasing' take some objects (clothes) and not others (tools)? Why does physical transformation or teleportation not leave people naked if they can't take objects with them? Why do vampires/demons/melting monsters (or Nick Fury at the end of Infinity War) leave no clothes behind, but whatever they're holding falls on the ground? Why can teleportation machines perfectly differentiate between the person and what they're standing on, but can be tricked into teleporting extra people just by grabbing on? Etc.

    It's just a fundamental conceit of most genre fiction that the human body is 'special' in some unspecified way (and so are clothes, usually, but not anything else).
     
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  12. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's how I always interpreted it.
     
  13. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When a person is shot and the wall/floor is undamaged, the phaser is set to "biomatter sensitivity" only. When something metal or rock is damaged, it's on a different setting. If you're patrolling the ship looking for intruders, generally they'll be biological. If you're on an away team, not knowing what you'll have to face, whether person or inanimate object (such as a door blocking your way which you have to cut open), you opt for the general setting.

    Nobody wants to replace a panel every time you have to stun someone. Spare wall parts are reserved for when your ship is attacked and there is damage to the hull.
     
  14. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In reality, it doesn't work that way. When something damages biomatter, it also damages matter that's not bio as well. Maybe to a lesser degree, but it does. If a bullet is fast enough to kill you, it will leave a mark on a wall. You can't have one without the other. You're speaking as if damaging radiations had a mind of their own and could decide if they'll attack this piece of matter and not this one. Nothing works that way.
     
  15. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If transporters can isolate matter belonging to a person and not transport a clump of dirt under their feet (outdoors)/a piece of the carpet/floor tiles (indoors), maybe a phaser can, too.
     
  16. Herbert

    Herbert Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Was this actually shown in an episode or is it speculation on your part?
    Other than a numerical value with the higher numbers being the more dangerous and powerful, I'm never seen phaser settings as you're suggesting.
     
  17. Laura Cynthia Chambers

    Laura Cynthia Chambers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I dunno. Just guessing. Maybe there are "all-purpose phasers", and "weapon phasers". Sort of like the difference between a swiss army knife and a hunting knife.
     
  18. JesterFace

    JesterFace Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    About 'Cause and Effect' and Bozeman, why didn't they feel the same effects as the Enterprise crew?

    It was already suggested that maybe the Bozeman hadn't been in the loop for decades but the same amount of time as the Enterprise.
    Here's another theory: Maybe the Bozeman was on a "different loop" than the Enterprise, perhaps they had relived the events of several decades only few times and would easily think some things were just deja vu.
     
  19. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    Do we actually know they didn't feel the effects? No amount of deja vu would've done the enterprise any good if they didn't have Data's magic technnobabble systems on the job.
     
  20. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The stupid stuff here is that they could have done both things at the same time, IE the tractor beam and open the bay doors. In fact, that's what they ended doing! The whole thing would have been resolved the first time around if not for the bridge people being too stupid to realize that you can do two things at the same time!!!