Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[XCV330]

The Kelvin and her sister ships look nothing like the Starfleet vessels from DSC season 1.

I wish they would have included at least one old Kelvin type.

Since the Romulan mining ship changed Starfleet's development and priorities, it would make sense, I guess that their fleet barely resembled the Prime universe from the Klingon War era. Assuming most of the vessles of the Disco era were either destroyed in the war, or found unfit due to that action and/or their performance, it also makes sense that a new fleet based on lessons learned learning heavily on Constitution and later Connie refit designs would also make sense.

But they still could have thrown fans a bone and had a Kelvin ship in there or even an old Daedalus. Maybe it was more difficult to do before the CBS/Paramount merger. Daedali have since made an appearance in Lower Decks

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Yeah, a couple of old Kelvin-looking ships in the mix would've helped make Discovery and Star Trek 09 feel more legit. Star Trek 09 would have been given a stronger tie to the Prime universe and we would've been given at least something that was familiar at the start of Discovery.

Also I wanted to see them!

 

[fireproof78]

More of a Kelvin type ship would be welcome.

 

[Dukhat]

The problem with adding a Kelvin-type ship was that CBS didn’t want their viewing audience to be confused as to which universe DSC was taking place in, since the KT movies and their designs were the property of Paramount, not CBS. So it’s possible that the Kelvin and her sister ships couldn’t be used by CBS because they didn’t own those designs. Now, of course, there shouldn’t be any issues with that since Paramount and CBS have merged.

 

[fireproof78]

I'll take Kelvin wherever I can. USS KELVIN show, T-shirts, little plush dolls that say "Walk with me." Merchandising!

*please note: the above is snarky and sarcastic.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Kelvin and her sister ships look nothing like the Starfleet vessels from DSC season 1.

Externally not so much, but the Kelvin bridge looks like it could have evolved into the Shenzhou or Discovery.

Maybe it was more difficult to do before the CBS/Paramount merger

Yeah, they weren't allowed to include anything from the movies in TV and vice-versa back then.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, they weren't allowed to include anything from the movies in TV and vice-versa back then.

Wasn't that debunked within days of it being reported, making it another example of how piss-poor communications were with behind the scenes folks at the time, just like the 25% debacle?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wasn't that debunked within days of it being reported, making it another example of how piss-poor communications were with behind the scenes folks at the time, just like the 25% debacle?

I recall reading somewhere they were writing around the Romulan supernova at one point and making sure not to feature it because they had issues doing so. But I also recall the interview with the Disco S1 writer who thought they couldn't reference anything from ANY of the movies... so it's possible even the powers that be had no clue what they were doing.

 

[NCC-73515]

They could talk fine, they were just pronouncing the words the way the Klingon dictionary and the dialect coach told them to pronounce them. Voq/Tyler spoke the language exact same way outside of the makeup.

Most viewers are just used to most of series/movies not using the pronunciation style created by Marc Okrand.

The Klingon language as spoken in ST6 mostly used his pronunciations.

No, the correct Klingon pronunciation would sound fine (as in SFS and TUC). The Disco Klingons just spoke too slowly and their teeth made them mumble. You can't easily make sounds like on Okrand's Klingon CDs (Power Klingon, Conversational Klingon, Klingon Language Lab) with that much stuff in and around your mouth. A lot of previous Klingons made horrible mistakes (looking at you, Gowron), but Kruge, Chang, and Martok got it right.

 

[Noname Given]

The problem with adding a Kelvin-type ship was that CBS didn’t want their viewing audience to be confused as to which universe DSC was taking place in, since the KT movies and their designs were the property of Paramount, not CBS. So it’s possible that the Kelvin and her sister ships couldn’t be used by CBS because they didn’t own those designs. Now, of course, there shouldn’t be any issues with that since Paramount and CBS have merged.

By the time ST: D started EVERYTHING was back under the CBS umbrella rights wise. I do think it was a choice to 'not mix the streams' and make fans think it was set in the JJ Trek-verse. (Not that the other production elements didn't stop such arguments within the fanbase. )

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

The first we hear Klingon in DSC I was super stoked if sounded exactly like TUC Klingon. Over time it eventually sounded like TUC Klingon spoken with dentures.

 

[Dukhat]

By the time ST: D started EVERYTHING was back under the CBS umbrella rights wise. I do think it was a choice to 'not mix the streams' and make fans think it was set in the JJ Trek-verse. (Not that the other production elements didn't stop such arguments within the fanbase. )

I’m pretty sure Paramount had the rights to their own films, not CBS. They just didn’t own the Star Trek IP, which was the property of CBS. That’s why CBS had to give Paramount a license to produce the KT films.

 

[Tuskin38]

The CBS Consumer Products website listed the Kelvin movies as a property they owned as far back as Into Darkness' release, but they didn't list any of the other movies.

It's possible the TNG/TOS movies were bundled with the TV series.

No, the correct Klingon pronunciation would sound fine (as in SFS and TUC). The Disco Klingons just spoke too slowly and their teeth made them mumble.

And yet, Voq/Tyler sounded the same with and without the makeup.

 

[Noname Given]

I’m pretty sure Paramount had the rights to their own films, not CBS. They just didn’t own the Star Trek IP, which was the property of CBS. That’s why CBS had to give Paramount a license to produce the KT films.

I thought they had re-merged into one Company again in 2016 <--- There were discussions at that time but ultimately the merger at that time was called off. That said in 2019 they finally DID merge back into one company; so at this point; CBS does hold the rights to everything Paramount has -- or given the re-branding Paramount now has rights to everything CBS had.
^^^
But had CBS wanted to use Kelvin designs - they probably could have. There was enough cross pollinizeation at the time (2016) that the Kelvin ships were added to Star Trek Online (which was licensed by CBS - and Cryptic staff stated that CBS was giving the okay and that it wasn't a separate deal with Paramount that allowed it.) So, there was a lot of cooperation between the two entities prior to 2019 when they merged back together.

 

[NCC-73515]

The first we hear Klingon in DSC I was super stoked if sounded exactly like TUC Klingon. Over time it eventually sounded like TUC Klingon spoken with dentures.

T'Kuvma was the worst, he ruined it in the first few seconds already XD

 

[fireproof78]

No, the correct Klingon pronunciation would sound fine (as in SFS and TUC). The Disco Klingons just spoke too slowly and their teeth made them mumble. You can't easily make sounds like on Okrand's Klingon CDs (Power Klingon, Conversational Klingon, Klingon Language Lab) with that much stuff in and around your mouth. A lot of previous Klingons made horrible mistakes (looking at you, Gowron), but Kruge, Chang, and Martok got it right.

Kruge sounded absolutely awful. T'Kumva was better for me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I think what frustrates me, is that they sometimes seem to forget they have a very broad canvass to paint on. I don’t mind hitting the legacy notes, but I also want to see the universe expanded.

But you have no way of knowing that they won't do that. Having the Klingons play a secondary role doesn't mean they won't be broadening their horizons and going new places as well. The Klingons played a peripheral part in TMP when facing V'Ger, in ST:IV when the BoP took the crew back in time to save Earth, and in ST:V when they flew to the center of the galaxy.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Kruge sounded absolutely awful. T'Kumva was better for me.

Kruge sounded the way he did because that was Christopher Lloyd's voice. It wasn't caused by the prosthetic interfering with their ability to speak easily and clearly, like the Disco Klingons.

 

[fireproof78]

Kruge sounded the way he did because that was Christopher Lloyd's voice. It wasn't caused by the prosthetic interfering with their ability to speak easily and clearly, like the Disco Klingons.

Sure but the end result was worse to my ear. While Discovery had a little marble mouth Kruge didn't sound, believable to me. It's a fine line with a made up language to strike. Kruger just doesn't work for me always. I think that's the big part. Kruge works in his first scene and there is a level of intensity that sells it. Similarly when he orders a hostage killed. But, it's uneven.

T'kumva always feels realistic to me.

 

[diankra]

I recall reading somewhere they were writing around the Romulan supernova at one point and making sure not to feature it because they had issues doing so. But I also recall the interview with the Disco S1 writer who thought they couldn't reference anything from ANY of the movies... so it's possible even the powers that be had no clue what they were doing.

Writers and lawyers don't overlap (except in the awful example of the late 80s). Possibly the writers thought they couldn't use any Abrams references. Possibly the lawyers would say it'll probably be OK. And the writer would reply 'Probably isn't good enough, we have to shoot on Monday and any lawsuit would be a nuisance. So I'll play safe, no reference."