Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

[Mudd]

When did it begin? If the mirror universe split off the prime universe as a result of something the prime universe people did, the future mirror universe inhabitants would inherit the name "mirror universe" from their prime predecessors.

Parallel universes do not require a branch. In premise, they simply exist alongside one another throughout their histories - you know, "parallel" - but events in each take different turns.

This concept used to be part of sf's stock-in-trade, but the notion of branching quantum realities has so supplanted it in the popular imagination that it gets muddled and eventually, I expect, folded in. Sort of how Khan transformed from a eugenically-bred human to a "product of genetic engineering"

 

[137th Gebirg]

And from a Sikh to a guy whiter than my legs in winter.

 

[Tallguy]

And from a Sikh to a guy whiter than my legs in winter.

You can't have a Person of Color as a Terrorist in your "Terrorism is Made Up" movie.

 

[fireproof78]

Which is why they tired to cast Benecio del Toro first

 

[Tallguy]

Which is why they tired to cast Benecio del Toro first

Wrong ethnicity but it's the SAME wrong ethnicity.

 

[fireproof78]

Wrong ethnicity but it's the SAME wrong ethnicity.

Yes. We all know our genetic superman have identical ethnicity.

 

[Tallguy]

Yes. We all know our genetic superman have identical ethnicity.

I know that the same person has the identical ethnicity of himself.

 

[Mudd]

You can't have a Person of Color as a Terrorist in your "Terrorism is Made Up" movie.

Khan's terrorism was real, not made up. He blew up a lot of Starfleet types Real Good in London, then did a Godfather III on the Admiralty in San Francisco, all by his little old self. No shadowy Starfleet conspiracy put him up to it; he was just an asset who got out of hand. All that is explicit in the film.

Totally coincidentally and unrelated to this, the United States and Saudi Arabia joined to arm the Afghan insurgents fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in 1979. Among the insurgent leaders was one Osama Bin Laden.

 

[eschaton]

And from a Sikh to a guy whiter than my legs in winter.

At least they added a throwaway line about how he did cosmetic surgery on himself.

Thinking about Khan makes me wonder - in the MU was he like the most heroic, decent man in all of Terran history, who fought for democratic rule?

 

[Nerys Myk]

At least they added a throwaway line about how he did cosmetic surgery on himself.

Thinking about Khan makes me wonder - in the MU was he like the most heroic, decent man in all of Terran history, who fought for democratic rule?

The Emperor killed all the Augments in the crib.

 

[137th Gebirg]

At least they added a throwaway line about how he did cosmetic surgery on himself.

Thinking about Khan makes me wonder - in the MU was he like the most heroic, decent man in all of Terran history, who fought for democratic rule?

I would hope not. The notion of everything being literally "mirrored" seems improbable to me, as well as somewhat contrived, or maybe cliché (having a hard time finding the right word for this). In DS9, there were several characters, particularly the members of the Terran resistance (Sisko, O'Brian, etc.) who were still trying to do the right thing, albeit with a harder pirate-like edge to them. There should be more depth to the characterization.

For a space-faring race to be so back-stabby, without much of a code of honor/ethics that even historical pirates would have had, I can't imagine they would have lasted very long against another aggressor species that knew how to trust and work with each other effectively. A ship can only function with trust from the top all the way to the bottom. When desperation trumps fear, society breaks down and everything falls apart. This goes for the macro in a society/civilization to the micro in small communities and closed spaces like starships. When morale is nonexistent, unit cohesion is impossible. Mirror Spock knew this, which Kirk tried to leverage in M,M in an effort to affect positive change in the Empire.

In fact, I wouldn't ever expect the MU Earth peoples to have made it far beyond the Bozeman theft of the T'Plana-Hath. Once the Vulcans got wind of how insanely aggressive those humans were, murdering their exploratory crew, they likely would have quarantined the whole Sol system with a permanent blockade, if not blown away the whole Earth outright and saved themselves the trouble.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would hope not. The notion of everything being literally "mirrored" seems improbable to me, as well as somewhat contrived, or maybe cliché (having a hard time finding the right word for this). In DS9, there were several characters, particularly the members of the Terran resistance (Sisko, O'Brian, etc.) who were still trying to do the right thing, albeit with a harder pirate-like edge to them. There should be more depth to the characterization.

Yes, it’s not DCComic’s Earth 3

For a space-faring race to be so back-stabby, without much of a code of honor/ethics that even historical pirates would have had,

It more of a guideline.

 

[eschaton]

I would hope not. The notion of everything being literally "mirrored" seems improbable to me, as well as somewhat contrived, or maybe cliché (having a hard time finding the right word for this). In DS9, there were several characters, particularly the members of the Terran resistance (Sisko, O'Brian, etc.) who were still trying to do the right thing, albeit with a harder pirate-like edge to them. There should be more depth to the characterization.

We've seen past cases of MU bad guys being "good." MU Brunt was very nice, from what I remember. One can argue that MU Voq was also nicer than his alter. Of course, only the inherent nature of the Terrans changed, not other races, so perhaps this was just chance.

 

[Nyotarules]

In fact, I wouldn't ever expect the MU Earth peoples to have made it far beyond the Bozeman theft of the T'Plana-Hath. Once the Vulcans got wind of how insanely aggressive those humans were, murdering their exploratory crew, they likely would have quarantined the whole Sol system with a permanent blockade, if not blown away the whole Earth outright and saved themselves the trouble.

The only way those MU humans beat all other galactic powers is if they were Augments. I know they were not in canon, but its the only thing that makes sense to me. The telepathic Betazoids should have beaten them from day one of First Contact

 

[Michael]

We've seen past cases of MU bad guys being "good." MU Brunt was very nice, from what I remember.

(Source: Trekcore)

EZRI: Brunt modified the dilithium matrix to maximise the output.
QUARK: He did, did he?
EZRI: He's a very good engineer.
ROM: He's also a very good cook. These fried tube grubs are delicious.
QUARK: Better hope he didn't poison them.
ROM: Maybe in our universe he'd do something like that, but not over here. Over here, everything's alternate. So he's a nice guy. Which means the tube grubs here should be poisonous, because they're not poisonous on our side. But if Brunt gave us poisonous tube grubs it would mean he wasn't as nice as we think he is. But he has to be nice because our Brunt isn't.
QUARK: Rom, you're driving me crazy.
ROM: It's not me, brother, it's this alternate universe. It just doesn't make any sense.
BRUNT: More tube grubs?
ROM: Yes, please. No. Yes!

(Source: Chakoteya)

 

[cooleddie74]

MU O'Brien was just a grumpier version of our own Miles O'Brien.

 

[fireproof78]

I know that the same person has the identical ethnicity of himself.

And yet people masquerade as other alien races all the time.

 

[Tuskin38]

the Halkans in Mirror Mirror were pacificists in both universes.

Mirror Worf was acting like any other Klingon, for all we know that is how he would have been if he was never orphaned in the Prime Timeline.

 

[Finn]

If we saw the MU in the DQ, we would have seen Jetrel as Neelix's personal slave, the Vidiians curing diseases everywhere, and the Kazon envied and awed all over as a race of intellectuals.

 

[Mudd]

You notice that in "Mirror, Mirror," the Halkans were the same in both universes?

So were the Vulcans, up to a point - they had the same detached nature and devotion to logic, so not Romulans. But their ethics were different.

The MU started as a neat high-concept (not original) notion of an Earth with an alternative history that produced a fascist human empire instead of a democratic human civilization. The nature of the whole universe and every creature in it wasn't "flipped" in some binary fashion.

Then fans and eventually TV writers made it into something entirely stupid.