• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread

How was DSC political in any way?
It was just boring as fuck but I never saw anything political in it unless we are talking Empress Georgiou things?

Star Trek is always going to be a little political because it's basically a liberal fantasy. A world were racism and bigotry is gone, People no longer use money. Problems are often solved through diplomacy. But it was also a show about a military with it's chain of command and usually had at least one strong male leader character at the top. Whether that be Kirk,Picard,Sisko etc. Discovery's strong male character at the top ended up being the villain and the way Starfleet is depicted seems less military like.

You then add things like the Klingons being stand-ins for MAGA, one character being killed for mansplaining and Stacey Abrams as Earth President then it is very clear what politics the shows creators of the show have. The fact that is was Trek's most diverse cast ever was also just like added proof of their politics. That the show had bad writing though is what makes it the ultimate target for online criticism.

Republican content creators love liberal themed shows that aren't very good because it allows them to really promote the 'Go Woke, Go Broke" messaging and they can make the claim that the shows politics are why the show sucks. They have a harder time selling this message for shows that might be political but are also well written. Sometimes they try going after those shows but they know their bread and butter are the crappy shows and well lots of crappy shows are being made today so they got plenty of material to work with. Their only problem is a problem I have mentioned before which is over saturation. They have complained about wokeness so much and for so long that it has become yet the next thing that has become tedious and boring in our society.
 
Last edited:
Klingon's as MAGA?
imo That's just wrong and inappropriate since I always got the sense that Klingons were based on the ancient Samurai, with talk of honor and duty and the willingness to self sacrifice etc...portraying them in that manner (MAGA) is inaccurate if that is what is happening...

i try to consume a lot of analytical content on the subjects you just mentioned, and i tend to find holes in both "sides" (I hate that i have to use THAT term) of the arguments. But polarity defines our culture now, unfortunately.
 
I think some people felt it was political because we had a gay marriage, a non binary character and a trans person. To some that isn't a reflection of normal society, but politics. Some people are also biased and bigots.
These things were included because they're currently trendy. They didn't appear in the 1960s or 1990s shows because they weren't trendy then. ( Alternatively, because the people making those shows were all hateful, evil bigots and probably Hitler. )
 
Klingon's as MAGA?
imo That's just wrong and inappropriate since I always got the sense that Klingons were based on the ancient Samurai, with talk of honor and duty and the willingness to self sacrifice etc...portraying them in that manner (MAGA) is inaccurate if that is what is happening...
That stuff was grafted on to the Klingons in TNG, They were originally stand ins for the Eastern Bloc with more than a touch of Yellow Peril. Brutal, ruthless and merciless. Kor in "Errand of Mercy" casually orders the execution of Organians.
 
That stuff was grafted on to the Klingons in TNG, They were originally stand ins for the Eastern Bloc with more than a touch of Yellow Peril. Brutal, ruthless and merciless. Kor in "Errand of Mercy" casually orders the execution of Organians.
and why not? they were just "Vege-tables"
 
Klingon's as MAGA?
imo That's just wrong and inappropriate since I always got the sense that Klingons were based on the ancient Samurai, with talk of honor and duty and the willingness to self sacrifice etc...portraying them in that manner (MAGA) is inaccurate if that is what is happening...

i try to consume a lot of analytical content on the subjects you just mentioned, and i tend to find holes in both "sides" (I hate that i have to use THAT term) of the arguments. But polarity defines our culture now, unfortunately.

I am thinking of the Klingons was we first saw them on Discovery. The Klingons on TNG were basically Vikings and Shakespearean nobleman.
 
These things were included because they're currently trendy. They didn't appear in the 1960s or 1990s shows because they weren't trendy then. ( Alternatively, because the people making those shows were all hateful, evil bigots and probably Hitler. )

Wanting gay characters and trans characters to be represented is more than just being trendy. I mean I guess it is trendy to some degree since people are now more open to that kind of representation but it's also the morally right thing to do as well. Not that I think lots of Republicans would agree with that moral interpretation but at the same time I also don't think just having gay or trans characters would turn away conservative fans anymore than any of the other liberal ideas we have seen in Trek.

I think tv and movies have shown us that conservative fans are willing to overlook liberal ideas and even liberal politics in tv shows and movies provided they see something in those shows that they feel also represents their values and ideas. In the past they might have been okay with all the liberals ideas in Trek because they do like spaceships and the military structure of Starfleet and strong male characters like Kirk and even female ones like say Kira.

With Discovery though I don't think they saw anything in that show that represents them in any fashion. Maybe Lorca but he was made the bad guy. I mean other than that I am not sure what the show had to offer anyone who might be conservative that would interest them. Thus it was deemed as being to political. Granted the show also lost liberal fans as well but that was more about the shows quality than the liberalism .
 
Last edited:
add : Lord of the Rings, huge one right there

I thought about including it, but I'm not sure most people would consider the 1978 Bakshi film to be that authoritative.
Star Trek is always going to be a little political because it's basically a liberal fantasy. A world were racism and bigotry is gone, People no longer use money. Problems are often solved through diplomacy. But it was also a show about a military with it's chain of command and usually had at least one strong male leader character at the top. Whether that be Kirk,Picard,Sisko etc. Discovery's strong male character at the top ended up being the villain and the way Starfleet is depicted seems less military like.

You then add things like the Klingons being stand-ins for MAGA, one character being killed for mansplaining and Stacey Abrams as Earth President then it is very clear what politics the shows creators of the show have. The fact that is was Trek's most diverse cast ever was also just like added proof of their politics. That the show had bad writing though is what makes it the ultimate target for online criticism.

Republican content creators love liberal themed shows that aren't very good because it allows them to really promote the 'Go Woke, Go Broke" messaging and they can make the claim that the shows politics are why the show sucks. They have a harder time selling this message for shows that might be political but are also well written. Sometimes they try going after those shows but they know their bread and butter are the crappy shows and well lots of crappy shows are being made today so they got plenty of material to work with. Their only problem is a problem I have mentioned before which is over saturation. They have complained about wokeness so much and for so long that it has become yet the next thing that has become tedious and boring in our society.

I'm going to try hard not to get into a TNZ territory, but I think it needs to be said that a lot of people don't understand the difference between politics and culture any longer. Frankly, this is the case on both sides, but this was presented most starkly after the last U.S. election, where despite winning everything, a lot of conservatives were still upset, because what really animated them weren't political questions - tax rates, spending priorities, foreign policy - etc. What animated them instead was a loss of cultural hegemony. What they really wanted was no Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl.

Klingon's as MAGA?
imo That's just wrong and inappropriate since I always got the sense that Klingons were based on the ancient Samurai, with talk of honor and duty and the willingness to self sacrifice etc...portraying them in that manner (MAGA) is inaccurate if that is what is happening...

DIS Season 1 absolutely tried for a MAGA-ish framing for the Klingons. T'Kuvma's speech was essentially religious/cultural grievance, arguing that the tolerance of the Federation was a corrupting influence on the purity of Klingon values. It kind of got lost in the shuffle as the season went on, however - as was the case with most of the theming. It didn't help that T'Kuvma was dead by the end of the second episode, and Kol was dead by the end of the season. By the time they got back from the MU, L'Rell was essentially the last Klingon character, and had to work as a stand in from the brig for the entire effin race.

Lorca's "Make the Empire Glorious Again" line was also pretty on-the nose. Though again, from the second season onward, overt politics pretty much dropped from the show.

Wanting gay characters and trans characters to be represented is more than just being trendy. I mean I guess it is trendy to some degree since people are now more open to that kind of representation but it's also the morally right thing to do as well. Not that I think lots of Republicans would agree with that moral interpretation but at the same time I also don't think just having gay or trans characters would turn away conservative fans anymore than any of the other liberal ideas we have seen in Trek.

Trek was decades behind the time when it came to including gay characters (something that was becoming normalized by the end of Berman Trek already). It had to be done.

The question of nonbinary/trans characters is at least theoretically more complicated, because it's something which is a really historically contingent set of identities built up over the present. In a world where people can get SRS in an hour, would something like gender really matter any longer? That said, we're making these shows as a reflection of the present, not a documentary, so I'm fine with it.

I'll make a note here that it seems like Trek is moving away from queer characters. Look at SNW. There was a tiny bit of queer-ish content in the first season (Chapel mentioning she dated a woman in the past, casting a trans character in a guest role, arguably whatever happened between Una and Ortegas in The Elysian Kingdom) but since the show has been obsessed with pairing off pretty much everyone in straight relationships.

I dunno about SFA, but I wouldn't be surprised if all the characters are canonically straight (or at least, non-queer - maybe SAM is ace, because she's a holo).

With Discovery though I don't think they saw anything in that show that represents them in any fashion. Maybe Lorca but he was made the bad guy. I mean other than that I am not sure what the show had to offer anyone who might be conservative that would interest them. Thus it was deemed as being to political. Granted the show also lost liberal fans as well but that was more about the shows quality than the liberalism

I feel like the tone of early Discovery was still very masculine, and even edgelord-ish. You had Starfleet planting mines in dead bodies (a war crime in the present day). Starfleet installing L'Rell as a dictator with a WMD. Section 31 in the background doing shady shit. Characters dying for shock value. Etc.

After Michelle Paradise took over, it shifted from Edgelord Trek to Hallmark Channel Trek. Characters - sometimes even the ship! - sit around and discuss their feelings. This can even happen in the middle of life and death crises. No one is ever a bad listener, and everyone validates one another's feelings. With only a few rare exceptions (like when Book's planet blew up), character deaths stop happening, especially for main characters. It was sort of as if the show became afraid we might get triggered if something too bad happened. So the overall "vibes" did shift to something I do think a lot of conservatives would have a hard time dealing with.
 
a lot of it was overcorrection, which is common...this can include the inclusion of gay/trans characters, "toxic masculinity", which has been overdone in recent memory. I mean, I know gay couples and some trans individuals, but from a societal standpoint, their numbers are still much lower in the census.

Further, there seemed to be a trend to re-identify platonic relationships as gay relationships, when most of do HAVE same sex friend relationships that are not intimate, by any means. Those of the same sex CAN be just friends...again probably over correction.

ironically media STILL likes to portray many gay characters are caricatures, especially in comedy..I know a few male gay couples, and they don't prance around singing musicals, and talking about fashion and dropping sexual innuendo, no, they drink beer and watch football on Sundays like any other couple..they are more like Keith and David from Six Feet Under. If you want to change peoples' mind, don't reinforce stereotypes, show them that despite who they love, they are no different than anyone else.

when it comes to male characters....
I mean, I ride a motorcycle and love heavy metal, I like to think I'm as masculine as you can get (LOL!) but some of the portrayals of male characters I've seen are so over the top, it's laughable, who actually acts like that? a small minority i would think.

I think that's why Wonder Woman resonated so well with everyone (2017). Patty Jenkins gets it. The thing that stood out about that film was the male characters..they were all competent, intelligent, virtuous, and openly accepted Diana as their leader. And there was one scene that was excellent and summed up things nicely: when Sameer first meets Diana in the bar, he goes in for a hug and kiss, and Diana gently but assertively blocks him with her hand, he backs off and never tries anything like that again...brilliant.

Eventually things will "calm down" and it won't be an issue anymore so this overcorrection is almost a necessary step to get there...
 
Further, there seemed to be a trend to re-identify platonic relationships as gay relationships, when most of do HAVE same sex friend relationships that are not intimate, by any means. Those of the same sex CAN be just friends...again probably over correction.

I think it's worth nothing that gay "shipping" culture is mostly straight women. Seems to be a cross-cultural thing, with the popularity of Yaoi for example in Japan. And of course the original ship in fanzines was Kirk/Spock. There's been a lot written on why this is, trying to parse things out. Part of it may be a subconscious desire for more "freedom" than traditional male/female romantic pairings provide, where the woman is expected to wait to be courted and headed towards a predetermined "happily ever after."

Frankly, I don't care enough to explore this in detail - it's not my jam. But I wanted to note that thinking everyone's gay doesn't primarily come from gay people.

ironically media STILL likes to portray many gay characters are caricatures, especially in comedy..I know a few male gay couples, and they don't prance around singing musicals, and talking about fashion and dropping sexual innuendo, no, they drink beer and watch football on Sundays like any other couple..they are more like Keith and David from Six Feet Under. If you want to change peoples' mind, don't reinforce stereotypes, show them that despite who they love, they are no different than anyone else.

Bit of an aside, but my 12-year-old son loves watching baking reality TV shows, for some reason, and he's been watching Kids Baking Championship. I had no idea how many flaming 10-year old boys there are. I certainly don't remember knowing any at that age, even as oblivious as I would've been at the time.

when it comes to male characters....
I mean, I ride a motorcycle and love heavy metal, I like to think I'm as masculine as you can get (LOL!) but some of the portrayals of male characters I've seen are so over the top, it's laughable, who actually acts like that? a small minority i would think.

Toxic masculine characters have been dead for quite awhile though. Instead, we see a gender-flipped version of this in a "strong female character." A woman who is emotionally closed off, never asks anyone for anything, etc.

In contrast, male action heroes are allowed to have pain and pathos - to be fully rounded characters. John Wick (as an example) is a brutal hitman, but he's motivated by the emotional pain of losing his wife, and then his dog.
 
I thought about including it, but I'm not sure most people would consider the 1978 Bakshi film to be that authoritative.
It ends at Helm's Deep! It leaves off the entirety of the 3rd book and some of the second. There was of course the Rankin-Bass ROTK but that was another movie with different animation designs and a different cast.
So it doesn't quite fit the mold of the other examples.
I had no idea how many flaming 10-year old boys there are.
holy hell
 
Toxic masculine characters have been dead for quite awhile though. Instead, we see a gender-flipped version of this in a "strong female character." A woman who is emotionally closed off, never asks anyone for anything, etc.

In contrast, male action heroes are allowed to have pain and pathos - to be fully rounded characters. John Wick (as an example) is a brutal hitman, but he's motivated by the emotional pain of losing his wife, and then his dog.
another reason Wonder Woman resonated so well, she was very feminine, beautiful, played "dress up", loved ice cream, showed compassion...but she could go toe to toe with Superman, demanded respect, and was brilliant and competent..

being a strong female character doesn't mean you have to "act" like a man (or resemble), so to speak...
 
It ends at Helm's Deep! It leaves off the entirety of the 3rd book and some of the second. There was of course the Rankin-Bass ROTK but that was another movie with different animation designs and a different cast.
So it doesn't quite fit the mold of the other examples.

holy hell
only 10 though, wait until the testosterone kicks in,Things might be different then!!!
 
I have noticed that their seems to be a move away from LGBTQ characters but I think they will come back but I think they will come back in older characters. Less teenagers so they will be presented as being less woke, I guess is the best term I can think of . Even if the character is liberal. I think Carol on Pluribus and Irving on Severance are examples of what I think we will see more of. I doubt we will get any characters as good as them on Academy but maybe in the movie or the next Trek show after Academy.
 
Samurai-Viking Space Bikers. Not too sure about Shakespearean nobleman, though.

I mean that have these different family houses which I think have lots of money and power over all Klingons. Their is always political fighting among the houses. Leaders being secretly poisoned and hidden deals with Romulans. Worf discovers he has a brother he didn't know about. The Duras family vs Worf's family. Gowron scheming.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top