Starfleet Academy General Discussion Thread

[Campe]

No question the funhouse turboshafts were baffling. But again, if that’s the hill we die on in regards to quality? What about a man in a garbage bag with motor oil poured over it who killed a series regular? Or a literal hand portraying a plant? Or transwarp salamanders? We can handwave so many other baffling choices but not that one?

Seems to me like some are just looking for excuses not to like something.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The turbo lifts in Star Trek 5 were equally baffling, albeit in a different way.

 

[Starflight]

No question the funhouse turboshafts were baffling. But again, if that’s the hill we die on in regards to quality? What about a man in a garbage bag with motor oil poured over it who killed a series regular? Or a literal hand portraying a plant? Or transwarp salamanders? We can handwave so many other baffling choices but not that one?

People definitely did not handwave the transwarp salamanders (I liked them!).

 

[TRON JA307020]

The funhouse turbolift may be THE single worst special effect in Trek history, and let's remember - this is a franchise that once had marionette puppets made out of pipe cleaner as shapeshifting aliens.

At least those pipe cleaner aliens looked cool and even believable as tiny strange little aliens. Interesting bit of cheap puppetry.

 

[Campe]

People definitely did not handwave the transwarp salamanders (I liked them!).

But was it a rationale to hate a series? And it sure is handwaved now.

 

[Starflight]

But was it a rationale to hate a series? And it sure is handwaved now.

I thought it was used as such, it's one of the things people seem reach for when condemning Voyager as a whole (alongside "Galileo dinosaurs" and "Janeway kllled Tuvix", both of which I think are superb episodes).

To be fair though I don't think many people say "Discovery is bad solely because of the turbolift rollercoaster mania", it's just a bizarre thing that's hilarious whether or not you're a fan of the show and which is easy to reach for when looking for something to knock the show over (same as the warp salamanders); I assume people have much more concrete and in-depth reasons for not enjoying the series.

 

[StarTrek1701]

The downfall of Trek can always be traced back to Paramount's mismanagement.

ENT - Fans want Romulan War! We got Xindi
2009 - Fans want a sequel for the reboot asap! Best we can do is TwoK remake.
DSC - Fans want after VOY! Just be happy with another prequel+reboot with Spock's adopted human sister.
PIC - Fans want Legacy! You get ACA and you'll be happy about it!

Hopefully Ellison corrects the path.

 

[Campe]

I thought it was used as such, it's one of the things people seem reach for when condemning Voyager as a whole (alongside "Galileo dinosaurs" and "Janeway kllled Tuvix", both of which I think are superb episodes).

To be fair though I don't think many people say "Discovery is bad solely because of the turbolift rollercoaster mania", it's just a bizarre thing that's hilarious whether or not you're a fan of the show; I assume people have much more concrete and in-depth reasons for not being fans of the show.

One poster here is using the argument as a lazy point in this very discussion. Regardless, as I said, the turboshafts are ridiculous. But my point is, I don’t think Disco is perfect by any stretch. And the ridiculousness in Disco as a whole is really not all that different than any previous Trek.

 

[Campe]

The downfall of Trek can always be traced back to Paramount's mismanagement.

ENT - Fans want Romulan War! We got Xindi
2009 - Fans want a sequel for the reboot asap! Best we can do is TwoK remake.
DSC - Fans want after VOY! Just be happy with another prequel+reboot with Spock's adopted human sister.
PIC - Fans want Legacy! You get ACA and you'll be happy about it!

Hopefully Ellison corrects the path.

Ellison’s Skydance was one of the decision makers that made Into Darkness.

 

[Santa Kang]

The downfall of Trek can always be traced back to Paramount's mismanagement.

ENT - Fans want Romulan War! We got Xindi
2009 - Fans want a sequel for the reboot asap! Best we can do is TwoK remake.
DSC - Fans want after VOY! Just be happy with another prequel+reboot with Spock's adopted human sister.
PIC - Fans want Legacy! You get ACA and you'll be happy about it!

Hopefully Ellison corrects the path.

Giving the fans what they "want" leads to uninspired dreck like PIC3. I'd rather they take a swing and miss that get more fanboy pablum.

"Never give the fans what they want. Give them what they never expected." - Stan Lee

"A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." — Steve Jobs

 

[SantaEddie74]

I didn't mind the Xindi. 2153 for the attack was canonically too early for the war with the Romulans.

 

[Starflight]

The downfall of Trek can always be traced back to Paramount's mismanagement.

I wonder how much of the final output is down to the execs and how much is the writers and showrunners; I guess we don't know all the behind-the-scenes stuff but I imagine Paramount's repeated request is "put Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise in it", which they suspect will draw in viewers.

It's a directive that suits the Abrams films, SNW, and to an extent Discovery (I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the sudden appearance of the Enterprise and Pike/Spock in S2, was a request from the execs).

Famously, Voyager writers were told to introduce Suspiria as a way to potentially get the ship home instantly if viewers didn't like the Delta Quadrant angle; I've wondered for ages if Burnham being Spock's sister was a similar thing, and the execs wanted a way to ensure the show had a lever to rapidly change direction and bring in legacy stuff.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I didn't mind the Xindi. 2153 for the attack was canonically too early for the war with the Romulans.

2152 was canonically too early for Romulan cloaking devices, but that they didn't let that stop them.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Giving the fans what they "want" leads to uninspired dreck like PIC3. I'd rather they take a swing and miss that get more fanboy pablum.

"Never give the fans what they want. Give them what they never expected." - Stan Lee

"A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." — Steve Jobs

Exactly so. I want Trek that's beyond the expectations or familiar patterns.

 

[Frostscape One]

No question the funhouse turboshafts were baffling. But again, if that’s the hill we die on in regards to quality? What about a man in a garbage bag with motor oil poured over it who killed a series regular? Or a literal hand portraying a plant? Or transwarp salamanders? We can handwave so many other baffling choices but not that one?

Seems to me like some are just looking for excuses not to like something.

I don't think people here who don't like DISCO is using that as the reason they don't like the show overall. It was just a quick example to illustrate overall distaste for DISCO. (And honestly ut's a symptom of the deeper, real problem: bad writing.)

Speaking for myself (though I'm sure others will say something similar), DISCO was terrible because the writing was terrible. Great visual effects are NOT a substitute for bad writing.

 

[Turtletrekker]

As usual, I think that "bad writing" here more accurately translates into "they didn't do what I wanted them to do". Personally, I would take the writing on Discovery over huge swaths of Voyager and Enterprise and quite a few episodes of TNG and DS9.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

As usual, I think that "bad writing" here more accurately translates into "they didn't do what I wanted them to do". Personally, I would take the writing on Discovery over huge swaths of Voyager and Enterprise and quite a few episodes of TNG and DS9.

Oh, definitely. I found many episodes of Discovery very enjoyable, relatable and compassionate. Can't say that for ENTERPRISE.

 

[Frostscape One]

As usual, I think that "bad writing" here more accurately translates into "they didn't do what I wanted them to do". Personally, I would take the writing on Discovery over huge swaths of Voyager and Enterprise and quite a few episodes of TNG and DS9.

So instead of asking me for clarification on what I meant when I said bad writing, you assume your own thing and put words in mouth.

WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!


DO NOT EVER PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH AGAIN!!!!

You want some clarification on something? How about ASKING WHAT THE PERSON WAS TALKING ABOUT FIRST BEFORE DECLARING IN YOUR MIND WHAT IT IS!!!

 

[Turtletrekker]

K

I'm not that really interested, especially after that display that I suppose you thought was supposed to be intimidating, but go ahead.

 

[Starflight]

Never before has a discussion about funhouse turbolifts gone so sour.