Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x08 - "Four-And-A-Half Vulcans"

[Detached Nacelle]

Recasts don't fall into the calculation of what's canon on-screen since often they are unavoidable. However, SNW could have used TOS sets if they wanted to (as seen in TNG and Enterprise). Thus, a refit between SNW and TOS is canon.

But by that logic you would have to headcanon in a refit between the Cage and Discovery too. Surely it is less of a headache to accept we are looking at the same Enterprise each time just through different lenses.

Until Picard we just accepted that all Romulans had forehead ridges, we've accepted Trill and Bajoran redesigns. Surely a ship not looking like a 1960s set isn't that much of an ask. A show made today reusing those old sets just wouldn't have the mass appeal it would need to actually sell even the original ship design just wouldn't really cut it, it would look so dated and soulless. It worked well for one off nostalgia fun episodes but not for a series made in the 2020s.

I am curious how you reconcile Voyager's conflicted crew compliment. It was stated multiple times there were 143 crew and B'Elanna says there are 140 humans when we have 3 Vulcans, 2 Bolians a half-Klingon and half-Ktarian at least. These are on screen statements ergo canon but they cannot co-exist. If you are able to look past something like this then why not the visual representation of the Enterprise? If not then I feel sorry for your headaches.

 

[Ovation]

You're telling me there's a dedicated closeup of a diagram of the Enterprise with a legible scale explicitly saying the Enterprise is "288 meters" long in "The Mark of Gideon?" Are you sure? Timestamp, please.

In TNG's "The Next Phase," Geordi's death certificate gives his mother's name as Alvera K. LaForge. It's onscreen. When "Interface" airs, Geordi's mother's name is Silva. In your estimation, what is Geordi's mother's real name? Both are on screen. Alvera came first. Which is her real name, and which is the canon-busting continuity error?

^^Similarly, in DS9 S6 Admiral Ross has his Starfleet Academy diploma in his office which lists his first name as Cliff. S7 has his first name established in dialogue as William.

And let's not even get started on James R Kirk or Trelane saying it's the 28th century.

Sorry. Its in the Enterprise incident. A clearly marked scale is right next to the diagram .

Again. James R. Kirk.

And no, Kirk didn't legally change his middle name between 2265 and 2266 and Gary Mitchell wasn't forgetting his best friend's middle name after 15 years of knowing him, not with deity-like ESP superpowers.

Warp drive was a post-S.S. Columbia crash invention until it wasn't. Zefram Cochrane was now the inventor of warp drive and it happened more than 150 years before TOS. Yet both episodes coexist in the same continuity and timeline. Neither episode suffers, and one can head canon why warp drive got so much faster between the crash and Pike and his crew arriving.

The Constitution-class warp engines are a really good reason for ships suddenly becoming so much faster!

How about the implication that warp drive was actually time travel ("we've broken the time barrier!"), which was quietly done away with by Where No Man Has Gone Before.

All canon.

 

[Donald G]

But by that logic you would have to headcanon in a refit between the Cage and Discovery too. Surely it is less of a headache to accept we are looking at the same Enterprise each time just through different lenses.

Until Picard we just accepted that all Romulans had forehead ridges, we've accepted Trill and Bajoran redesigns. Surely a ship not looking like a 1960s set isn't that much of an ask. A show made today reusing those old sets just wouldn't have the mass appeal it would need to actually sell even the original ship design just wouldn't really cut it, it would look so dated and soulless. It worked well for one off nostalgia fun episodes but not for a series made in the 2020s.

I am curious how you reconcile Voyager's conflicted crew compliment. It was stated multiple times there were 143 crew and B'Elanna says there are 140 humans when we have 3 Vulcans, 2 Bolians a half-Klingon and half-Ktarian at least. These are on screen statements ergo canon but they cannot co-exist. If you are able to look past something like this then why not the visual representation of the Enterprise? If not then I feel sorry for your headaches.

And, as pointed out earlier, you would ALSO have to headcanon a massive refit between the SHORT TREK, "Q&A," in which Ensign Spock first beams onto the Enterprise, and "The Cage." In "Q&A," the Enterprise is visualized in its DISCOVERY configuration.

That's a lot of refits in a short span of time.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Oh, just remembered one more thing I kinda liked about the episode: Pike doing the opening intro in a Vulcan monotone was funny.

I just wish Anson Mount hadn't gone shouty for most of the episode itself.

 

[MarcKyle1964]

And, as pointed out earlier, you would ALSO have to headcanon a massive refit between the SHORT TREK, "Q&A," in which Ensign Spock first beams onto the Enterprise, and "The Cage." In "Q&A," the Enterprise is visualized in its DISCOVERY configuration.

That's a lot of refits in a short span of time.

Most capital ships undergo periodic refits after periods of service and will get needed updates while significant damage is being repaired. A reconstruction halfway thru their service life as new weapons, updated powerplant and sensor updates are added will sometimes happen.

 

[Donald G]

All canon.

Correct. Canon should not be confused with continuity and consistency.

 

[Donald G]

Most capital ships undergo periodic refits after periods of service and will get needed updates while significant damage is being repaired. A reconstruction halfway thru their service life as new weapons, updated powerplant and sensor updates are added will sometimes happen.

True.
Still,
1.) Q&A to Cage (sometime between 2253-54)
2.) The Cage to Disco (sometime between 2254 and 2257)
3.) Between acts of Such Sweet Sorrow part 2 to repair the front of the saucer (probably several months in 2258)
4.) Between the end of Such Sweet Sorrow part two and SNW to install many new windows in the saucer and new bridge module (between 2258 and 2259)

Four refits in a six year time span is still a lot of refits in a short amount of time.

"Chris, the Enterprise is over fifteen years old. It spends more time in drydock constantly getting a couple hundred meters added to and subtracted from its length than performing its actual mission. When you move on, we'll keep it in service, but we're giving it to that kid from the Farragut and only assigning him unimportant milk runs. We'll tell him he's on a five year exploration mission to preserve Starfleet's pride, but it'll be mostly a PR exercise. That Ortegas documentary didn't accomplish what Starfleet wanted it to."

"Nogura and Morrow put you up to this, didn't they, Bob?"

 

[Tuskin38]

In universe the Enterprise doesn't look any different to the characters, only to us.

I don't know why some people find that so hard to wrap their heads around. It's the same ship in a different art style.

It's a TV show, not a historical documentary.

 

[Yistaan]

But by that logic you would have to headcanon in a refit between the Cage and Discovery too. Surely it is less of a headache to accept we are looking at the same Enterprise each time just through different lenses.

Cage has some slight wiggle room in that half of what's onscreen in the episode isn't really there but Talosian illusions. Meaning the episode is portrayed from the characters' perspective, not an objective one. Add into that they recently came from Rigel VII which messes with memories and brains and...

 

[cooleddie74]

"Chris, the Enterprise is over fifteen years old. It spends more time in drydock constantly getting a couple hundred meters added to and subtracted from its length than performing its actual mission. When you move on, we'll keep it in service, but we're giving it to that kid from the Farragut and only assigning him unimportant milk runs. We'll tell him he's on a five year exploration mission to preserve Starfleet's pride, but it'll be mostly a PR exercise. That Ortegas documentary didn't accomplish what Starfleet wanted it to."

"Nogura and Morrow put you up to this, didn't they, Bob?"

 

[Ovation]

In universe the Enterprise doesn't look any different to the characters, only to us.

I don't know why some people find that so hard to wrap their heads around. It's the same ship in a different art style.

It's a TV show, not a historical documentary.

X1000

 

[Donald G]

I just had to keep an old recurring TrekBBS bit alive, if only for a brief time.

 

[Trekker4747]

Oh, just remembered one more thing I kinda liked about the episode: Pike doing the opening intro in a Vulcan monotone was funny.

He shouldn't have split the infinitive as a Vulcan though.

 

[Noname Given]

And, as pointed out earlier, you would ALSO have to headcanon a massive refit between the SHORT TREK, "Q&A," in which Ensign Spock first beams onto the Enterprise, and "The Cage." In "Q&A," the Enterprise is visualized in its DISCOVERY configuration.

That's a lot of refits in a short span of time.

The ship's been so banged up over the last three seasons that you could have multiple refits anytime in the next 5 years.

 

[Donald G]

The ship's been so banged up over the last three seasons that you could have multiple refits anytime in the next 5 years.

Clearly why Enterprise was relegated to milk runs between 2265-70.

Saved Starfleet a lot of Cash on constant refits.

 

[cooleddie74]

Even the TOS Enterprise had at least four bridge module layouts between the two Pilots and the end of Season 3. "The Cage," "WNMHGB," Season 1 and then Seasons 2-3 where additional bridge stations had Spock-like slot viewers.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

He shouldn't have split the infinitive as a Vulcan though.

Spock did it at the end of TWOK. Take it up with him or Nick Meyer.