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Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x08 - "Four-And-A-Half Vulcans"

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We've got precious few episodes to work with in this show. Less than even TOS and STE. They are going heavy handed on the comedy and Spock romance. TOS, TNG etc while having humorous or romantic moments or episides didnt lean this heavily into it all the time. They were shows that explored humanity through the aliens and phenomena they encountered in space. Ww ate getting previous little of that now. The first season of this show was on the right track but they are straying further from it. I could honestly care less about Spocks love life at this point. They spent two seasons on the chapel romance and it was a waste of time because we know where the characters were in TOS. We knew in TOS that they never had a huge romance before it.
Romance is always a waste in Trek. The episode count doesn't impact my view on this.

I've never cared about characters and their love lives. That's been true since TOS.

But, Trek has done previously unheard of romances all the time so again, fair game.
 
It just seems like the showrunners are clicking off boxes now. Trying different tropes and gimmicks. The talking heads documentary episode, the zombie episode, the Freaky Friday body switch, the musical, an upcoming puppet episode, etc. I thought the slightly worse wedding episode was going to be the it-was-all-a-dream episode.

So what's next? The Hawaiian Risan Vacation episode? The Western episode? The Nazi episode? What about the special Holiday Episode? :rolleyes:

I like this show and I'm really rooting for it. But these episodes, although fun, are like junk food. Candy for dinner might be enjoyable, but we can't eat that all the time.
 
It just seems like the showrunners are clicking off boxes now. Trying different tropes and gimmicks. The talking heads documentary episode, the zombie episode, the Freaky Friday body switch, the musical, an upcoming puppet episode, etc. I thought the slightly worse wedding episode was going to be the it-was-all-a-dream episode.

So what's next? The Hawaiian Risan Vacation episode? The Western episode? The Nazi episode? What about the special Holiday Episode? :rolleyes:

I like this show and I'm really rooting for it. But these episodes, although fun, are like junk food. Candy for dinner might be enjoyable, but we can't eat that all the time.
You are complaining about how pretty much all episodic TV shows are written nowadays.
(and really how it's been all along)

It just seems worse because of the limited number of episodes that current Trek is allowed to make each season.
:shrug:
 
You are complaining about how pretty much all episodic TV shows are written nowadays.
(and really how it's been all along)

It just seems worse because of the limited number of episodes that current Trek is allowed to make each season.
:shrug:
Indeed, yes. The gimmicks I see are things present throughout TV that I've watched. Not saying SNW is making it all work or that some are better than others but the complaints feel very strange based upon Trek, especially TOS', episode history.
 
I think the problem is that it feels really artificial and plastic - they clearly look to the likes of Buffy, Xena, Stargate, and maybe parts of TOS and Voyager when they're thinking about doing these genre-shift episodes, but the problem is that episodic TV of the past could do unusual episodes and have them work brilliantly because they'd already put in the groundwork of getting you familiar with the characters and world. They were a treat, the icing on a cake that consisted of many episodes of solid television. The spice, not the main dish.

SNW's spent so much time arsing around with meta stuff and gimmicks that there's nothing to build on. It's designed as a throwback to pre-y2k episodic TV but it hasn't bothered to put out many "regular" episodes to prime us for the gimmick episodes. This is, I assume, due to the modern TV industry insistence that every episode be "an event". Season one did some good work with the likes of "Children of the Comet" and "Memento Mori" but at this point the show's spent so much time making lame Star Trek references and boring-ass jokes that the entire thing feels totally hollow.

It wants to emulate episodic storytelling but doesn't seem to understand what worked so well about it. It wants to be Star Trek but it struggles to write even an average TOS/TNG-style episode and has to mask weak plots (like last week's alien) with gimmicks. It wants to celebrate Star Trek's cultural legacy but can't think of a way to do it other than to constantly make meme-tier callbacks and have characters literally just say "Star Trek is good". I think they've made some real mistakes with this. Season one was solid, season two was up and down, but this has really gone off a cliff and I hope they change direction in season four.
 
You are complaining about how pretty much all episodic TV shows are written nowadays.
(and really how it's been all along)

It just seems worse because of the limited number of episodes that current Trek is allowed to make each season.
:shrug:
Just disappointed that it's falling into that pattern I suppose. I'm sure the cast and crew had an absolute blast doing a musical and (what at least appears to be) an upcoming puppet episode. It's fun every once in a while, but it's beginning to be their modus operandi now.
 
..... the problem is that episodic TV of the past could do unusual episodes and have them work brilliantly because they'd already put in the groundwork of getting you familiar with the characters and world. They were a treat, the icing on a cake that consisted of many episodes of solid television. The spice, not the main dish.

SNW's spent so much time arsing around with meta stuff and gimmicks that there's nothing to build on. It's designed as a throwback to pre-y2k episodic TV but it hasn't bothered to put out many "regular" episodes to prime us for the gimmick episodes. ...
Yes, this exactly. Very well put.

(Sorry for the separate post; unable to edit and add to my previous post.)
 
As with many problems that SNW has with what it is trying to do, this probably comes down to the 10 episode seasons.

OTOH, if we moved to 15 or 20 episode seasons would we then get 8 or 12 "wacky adventures"? It would certainly give their character arcs (which are almost entirely romantic) more room to breathe.

I loved this episode but I would have liked it more if the rest of the season had surer footing.
 
I think the problem is that it feels really artificial and plastic - they clearly look to the likes of Buffy, Xena, Stargate, and maybe parts of TOS and Voyager when they're thinking about doing these genre-shift episodes, but the problem is that episodic TV of the past could do unusual episodes and have them work brilliantly because they'd already put in the groundwork of getting you familiar with the characters and world. They were a treat, the icing on a cake that consisted of many episodes of solid television. The spice, not the main dish.
Those older shows also had 20+ episodes each season to work with.

Those days are gone.
 
Having ten episodes isn't necessarily the issue, it's that they're being used really poorly. Their aims for this season - have a handful of gimmick episodes, build the Spock/La'an romance, etc - could be effectively done within the episode count they have. The first season made much better use of the runtime IMO (and still managed to squeeze a couple comedy/gimmick episodes in).

We're also now nearly 30 episodes in - the 30th episode of TOS was "Amok Time", and it had spent the 15~ prior episodes putting out an almost unbroken chain of quality. There's no reason SNW couldn't be in the same position right now.
 
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But imagine what would happen if they ever created Augmented Vulcans

Who's to say they haven't? :vulcan:

One of my longstanding fan theories is that most of the "older" space faring species have already augmented themselves as far as they can safely, sometime in the distant past, and it's now passed on naturally. That's why everyone else seems to be stronger, or smarter or longer lived than humans. Since they can't advance further they go along with the human augment ban since non-augmented humans already scare the shit out of them.

How does just showing them their katras make then human again? Or did it convince them to do the reversion procedure?

It let them talk directly to their human personalities and convince them to revert. the other three were without incident so we didn't need to see the scene.

This makes me wonder if Khans are genetically evil and it's in their DNA to want to become dictators, based on what happened.

“Superior ability breeds superior ambition” La-an just had her ability supercharged.

such are inherent qualities of the Vulcan species? In which case all of this is not just not funny, but also kind of racist.

Vulcans are a different species not a different race, so by definition it can't be racist. No more than cats being aloof and dogs being friendly is.
 
No, we don't .
We have very little info from TOS about Spock & Chapel's previous interpersonal relationship.
There's nothing in TOS that indicates that they didn't meet before.

There's an awful lot of hyperbole coming from folks who apparently don't care for this episode.

Its obvious. Not once watching that show in all the years I saw it before Kurtzman Trek did I suspect they had a romance. This mostly from chapel. Even McCoy is wondering why she is pining after Spock. Hes Vulcan after all from his point of view. Its a waste of time because hes Vulcan.
You are complaining about how pretty much all episodic TV shows are written nowadays.
(and really how it's been all along)

It just seems worse because of the limited number of episodes that current Trek is allowed to make each season.
:shrug:

Not all episodic television is written this way.

But yes as few episodes as we are getting these gimmick episodes are too much. Too much romance. We've got 4 going on now. I n want star trek exploration episodes in deep space. TOS did that well. Episodes like the Corbomite Maneuver might never be equaled or surpassed at this point with this show.
 
I think the problem is that it feels really artificial and plastic - they clearly look to the likes of Buffy, Xena, Stargate, and maybe parts of TOS and Voyager when they're thinking about doing these genre-shift episodes, but the problem is that episodic TV of the past could do unusual episodes and have them work brilliantly because they'd already put in the groundwork of getting you familiar with the characters and world. They were a treat, the icing on a cake that consisted of many episodes of solid television. The spice, not the main dish.

SNW's spent so much time arsing around with meta stuff and gimmicks that there's nothing to build on.
I'm not one who has been dissatisfied with the "gimmick" episodes thus far -- not most of them, anyway -- but although I agree Season Three has proven to be surprisingly weak overall, I think SNW has advantages that other shows didn't have that have largely allowed it to make the alternating serious vs. "silly" episode structure work.

For one thing, SNW is a spinoff and doesn't bear the sole weight of establishing its characters and setting. The extent to which it utilizes prequel versions of previously familiar characters (Uhura and Spock, Chapel and Scotty, Kirk) and the extent to which it has a prior grounding in a popular Trek show does a lot of heavy lifting. It's gone a long way, I think, toward establishing goodwill among fans for a lighter-hearted format overall.

(I'll readily admit there are things that have disappointed me along the way: I initially thought Sam Kirk was going to be more present as a character who would obviate the inevitable Jim Kirk cameos, for instance, and I wish more had been done with him to this point. Still, I think the fact that SNW has so much familiar lore and atmosphere as ballast is a big part of why I have never felt cheated of "serious" SNW episodes by the format.)

The other advantage it has is that, while its experimental episodes certainly owe something to prior takes on those concepts, it is very unlike TOS in being able to choose and calibrate its silliness rather than simply being forced to resort to it due to limited resources. And the show's takes on things like the Musical Episode or its various excursions into Vulcan Farce (which I think we can say at this point it has made into its own subgenre) generally match or exceed the quality of prior whimsical outings in other shows.

At least, they did until the third season. In my opinion, S3's problem isn't its balance of serious and silly, but rather the degree to which both ends of the spectrum have been underwhelming. "What Is Starfleet?" is, I think, the first episode of SNW I've seen that I would have to call a full-on failure. The season's first three episodes are neither offensively bad nor particularly good. We've had one genuinely classic episode in "Through the Lens of Time," one really solid actioner in "The Sehlat Who Ate Its Tail," and a couple of lighter episodes -- including this one -- that have worked well despite their flaws (but even when they land for many of us as being fun and funny, they still do require us to squint at some fair-sized flaws indeed).

Across the board, I think there's a good case to be made that Season Three's batting average is just not a match for the high standards set by prior seasons, no matter what it's doing. On the other hand, when it has been good, it has been really good. If the price of the misses is getting hits like Doug the Sexy Vulcan or the awesomely creepy Vezda, it's worth it.
 
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Across the board, I think there's a good case to be made that Season Three's batting average is just not a match for the high standards set by prior seasons, no matter what it's doing. On the other hand, when it has been good, it has been really good. If the price of the misses is getting hits like Doug the Sexy Vulcan or the awesomely creepy Vezda, it's worth it.

I think one issue the show has this season is it's way too self-conscious about the fact that it's a TV show.

I mean, all shows are of course conscious of this. However, the combination of the experimental "gimmick" episodes and the overall light tone means the show is always just lampshading the fact that we all know it's just a dumb TV show and shouldn't take it too seriously. Something a ton of Trek fans absolutely hate.
 
I think one issue the show has this season is it's way too self-conscious about the fact that it's a TV show.

I mean, all shows are of course conscious of this. However, the combination of the experimental "gimmick" episodes and the overall light tone means the show is always just lampshading the fact that we all know it's just a dumb TV show and shouldn't take it too seriously. Something a ton of Trek fans absolutely hate.

Exactly. They don't take the show seriously why should the fans. If it just becomes light fluff instead of the sci fi drama many fans, like in their trek its not a must see. If I want to watch fluff and multiple romances that go nowhere I can just watch a soap opera.
 
Was much better than I expected........it entertained me for an hour and I got an escape from the shit show that every day has become the past 8 months......I'm happy. Just wish we had more than 10 episodes.
 
I think one issue the show has this season is it's way too self-conscious about the fact that it's a TV show.

I mean, all shows are of course conscious of this. However, the combination of the experimental "gimmick" episodes and the overall light tone means the show is always just lampshading the fact that we all know it's just a dumb TV show and shouldn't take it too seriously. Something a ton of Trek fans absolutely hate.
I don't think it's that much of a gimmick. There are other episodes, like Enemy Within, This Side of Paradise, Rascals, Facets, Tuvix, and Similtude, where something science fiction happens that alters the personalities of the characters. They and those around them re-evaluate who that person is and what value they have. The problem with this episode is that it plays almost entirely for the comedy, and there is no moment of self-revalation for the characters (well, some for La'an). They just get cured.
 
I don't think it's that much of a gimmick. There are other episodes, like Enemy Within, This Side of Paradise, Rascals, Facets, Tuvix, and Similtude, where something science fiction happens that alters the personalities of the characters. They and those around them re-evaluate who that person is and what value they have. The problem with this episode is that it plays almost entirely for the comedy, and there is no moment of self-revalation for the characters (well, some for La'an). They just get cured.

Also pike comes off as more of an annoying clean/neat freak. Is that how he really is? Maybe thats why his hair looks too high and stiff. Like hes spent an hour on it. Also did he get any self reflection. To cut down on the hair gel and piling his hair too high. Lol
 
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