Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"

[Noname Given]

During the DS9 era, to my memory, they seemed to have various upper brass members complicit with S31, but I don't remember them ever acknowledging them as a legitimate organization.

Memorya α's article on Section 31:

He basically acknowledged it directly to Dr Bashir in their final conversation. And in the episode you see even the Romulan operative that's working for Starfleet intelligence continue the myth that Section 31 doesn't exist, when we the audience all know it does.

And section 31 isn't akin to the US CIA per se. It's more akin to the US NSA, which yes is known publicly now, but whose existence was denied for decades in US Government circles.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

He basically acknowledged it directly to Dr Bashir in their final conversation. And in the episode you see even the Romulan operative that's working for Starfleet intelligence continue the myth that Section 31 doesn't exist, when we the audience all know it does.

And section 31 isn't akin to the US CIA per se. It's more akin to the US NSA, which yes is known publicly now, but whose existence was denied for decades in US Government circles.

I thought Section 31 would be treated more like the Majestic 12 organization.
A literal modernized (myth/modern folk lore/conspiracy theory).
You can't really prove that Majestic 12 exists, it's literally only talked about.
That's the way Section 31 would be viewed in the 24th century and beyond.

Or if you want to relate it to a few fictional spy organizations from famous TV shows.
"Alias" the TV series has SD-6
"La Femme Nikita" the TV series (1990's) has Section 1

 

[Michael]

It's interesting to see how viewers seem to have understood some of the key plot points of the episode differently. It didn't even cross my mind that M'Benga would actually include his rampage in the official report. I thought it was very clear that he was ashamed of what he'd done and kept it a secret for all those years, with only Christine knowing about what had happened. I feel like half the story falls apart when you assume he told Starfleet about what he had done, because it makes them look super stupid for trusting Rah and letting him be their ambassador, despite knowing about his lie. This is more or less a classic tale of a good, moral man changed by the horrors of war, being forced to bring out the worst impulses in him. And his shame is essential to tell that tale.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I feel like half the story falls apart when you assume he told Starfleet about what he had tone, because it makes them look super stupid for trusting Rah and letting him be their ambassador, despite knowing about his lie.

This isn't the first instance of StarFleet/UFP Political upper brass making dumb decisions. I'm sure if we look back, we can find other dumb Political decisions.

 

[Michael]

Well, as it is they aren't looking particularly smart in this story either way. It's one thing to grant asylum to a military general who committed atrocities. But to make him your ambassador? To me that seems a little far-fetched. In my view it's only saved by a wonderful performance of one Robert Wisdom. He plays him with enough charm and charisma that it's hard to find him completely unlikeable.

 

[BK613]

It's interesting to see how viewers seem to have understood some of the key plot points of the episode differently. It didn't even cross my mind that M'Benga would actually include his rampage in the official report. I thought it was very clear that he was ashamed of what he'd done and kept it a secret for all those years, with only Christine knowing about what had happened. I feel like half the story falls apart when you assume he told Starfleet about what he had tone, because it makes them look super stupid for trusting Rah and letting him be their ambassador, despite knowing about his lie. This is more or less a classic tale of a good, moral man changed by the horrors of war, being forced to bring out the worst impulses in him. And his shame is essential to tell that tale.

I agree. M'Benga went off on a vendetta not a mission. He had the opportunity to volunteer but turned it down. Him abandoning his medical posting to get juiced up and fight Klingons is not something he is going to report.

 

[Athena28]

Excellent episode about the horrors of war.


10

 

[fireproof78]

And section 31 isn't akin to the US CIA per se. It's more akin to the US NSA, which yes is known publicly now, but whose existence was denied for decades in US Government circles.

I think S31 has legitimate style fronts, usually in other black ops and intelligence agencies, while masking their actual efforts.

 

[Uhura's Song]

The episode was kinda weird for me.

M'Benga is both a trained doctor and SpecOps soldier and he was so highly regarded that the Andorian SF soldier tried to recruit him for a mission to kill the Klingon high command on J'Gal.

When M'Benga eventually went on the mission to kill the Klingon commanders, Dak'Rah escapes and then claims that he killed his fellow Klingons.

Why was M'Benga keeping quiet all these years ? He could have called out the lies of the Klingon defector.

A deceitful Klingon serving the Federation, as an ambassador, is very dangerous for the UFP. M'Benga would have known that.

I believe he answers that question in-episode. Shame about what he had done.

If it is explicit, I missed it. But my impression was that M'benga's rampage was off the books. Unsanctioned. I mean, SF had an ops mission to accomplish the same goal, and wanted M'benga on it. But he declined and it failed. So, accordingly, officially, they do not know he is the Butcher.

Would it make a difference about how SF treats Dak'Rah? I doubt it. Uhura is correct, it is still a huge PR coup. I doubt many governments would not, at the least, use him to their benefit. I would. Now, I wouldn't trust him either way.

But just because tgere are not consequences in episode does not mean there won't be. Una was fine for a bit as well.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I think S31 has legitimate style fronts, usually in other black ops and intelligence agencies, while masking their actual efforts.

For a second there, I misread "I think S31 has legitimate style fronts" as "I think S31 has legitimate style fonts"
My mind was thinking, WTF, when did S31 have their own font type-face?

Nevermind, just my mind misinterpreting text, LOL.
Anyways, let's continue on with the S31 talk.

 

[Tallguy]

I can think of some examples of the opposite, when the black character is the salt of the earth and that gets criticized as a kind of racism, too.

Indeed.

I think the larger thing to note here is the fact this is a story no one would blind an eye at with a white man, save as a story of guilt and revenge.

It never occurred to me to think of this as anything otherwise.

 

[Tallguy]

For a second there, I misread "I think S31 has legitimate style fronts" as "I think S31 has legitimate style fonts"
My mind was thinking, WTF, when did S31 have their own font type-face?

Nevermind, just my mind misinterpreting text, LOL.
Anyways, let's continue on with the S31 talk.

Section 31 has ligature style fonts.

This is the most interesting conversation I've ever had about Section 31.

 

[EnsignRedshirt]

M’Benga and Chapel have really catapulted into my favorite SNW characters this season. The acting chops they both have and the storylines they’ve been given are just fantastic.

 

[fireproof78]

For a second there, I misread "I think S31 has legitimate style fronts" as "I think S31 has legitimate style fonts"
My mind was thinking, WTF, when did S31 have their own font type-face?

I mean it could...

Then people could complain about the wrong fonts. It's a fount of font rage.

 

[cooleddie74]

Section 31 is totally the kind of agency that would use Comic Sans but have each letter and number of their name dripping with red blood.

 

[fireproof78]

Section 31 is totally the kind of agency that would use Comic Sans but have each letter and number of their name dripping with red blood.

Section 31 is a teenager thinking they're edgy?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Section 31 is totally the kind of agency that would use Comic Sans but have each letter and number of their name dripping with red blood.

I think they would pick something a bit more classy than "Comic Sans".

 

[Markonian]

I am sorry - I didn't mean to drop a bombshell argument and then vanish. Discussions move fast here.
Imho, the comments prove conclusively that M'Benga is not a war criminal by any definition.

Can the PTSD excuse his murder? He specifically unpacked the case to get to the d'k tahg while an unarmed, peaceful, Federation diplomat beseeched him to become an ally.

 

[passinglurker]

Can the PTSD excuse his murder? He specifically unpacked the case to get to the d'k tahg while an unarmed, peaceful, Federation diplomat beseeched him to become an ally.

The traumatized are not obligated to forgive the people that hurt them, Anyone who studies peace and healing as Rah claims to would know that.

Rah was warned to leave multiple times his refusal to do so despite M'benga's clear distress and protests means his actions and intentions are not peaceful even if he doesn't brandish weapons and aggression in the process precisely because his position meant that he should have known better.

With this I can conclude that simultaniously M'benga acted in self defense, while Rah "accidentally" fell on a knife. "Baktag happens" as the klingons would say.

 

[Markonian]

Thank you, that makes sense.
I'm glad we have an excuse not to throw Joseph M'Benga into a deep dark hole and throw away the keys. And if we do, we can always replace him with his morally pristine brother Jabilo M'Benga.