Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"

[cooleddie74]

Seems to me the knife was in the box on the table behind M'Benga's back when the altercation started. The view through the frosted glass did not show anyone picking up the knife. It is unclear who did.

And whomever grabbed it the end result is the same. Moral ambiguity over M'Benga having to kill Rah. If he struck first and murdered him there'd be a medical and psychological explanation for it. If he wrested the d'ktagh from Rah and then struck the death blow in self-defense then he has even more vindication. Either way M'Benga isn't even close to the more unethical character in that moment.

 

[jackoverfull]

And you are missing the point. It wasn't murder. It was justice. Just like those examples I listed above.

It might have been vengeance, it *could* have been murder, at the very least it was negligence, but in no way killing someone with no process, acting as judge, jury and executioner, can be “justice”.

And actually, it looks like Dak'Rah was threatening M'Benga. So yes, he was threatening more lives.

Maybe, maybe not, we don’t know as of now. But M’Benga is a skilled fighter and a doctor, even in the best of cases he *chose* to kill him and apparently didn’t even try to resuscitate him.

 

[Mudd]

M'Benga wanted to hide killing the Klingon solders because he was ashamed of having done it. He would have forgotten if he could have. He didn't want anyone else to know.

 

[cooleddie74]

He's a man with PTSD who saw a year-long meat grinder few other Starfleet officers of his century ever had to witness. Even in a worst case scenario his attitude is understandable and his actions forgivable.

There's killing somebody and then there's cold-blooded murder, and either way the PTSD doesn't care.

 

[Farscape One]

It might have been vengeance, it *could* have been murder, at the very least it was negligence, but in no way killing someone with no process, acting as judge, jury and executioner, can be “justice”.

Maybe, maybe not, we don’t know as of now. But M’Benga is a skilled fighter and a doctor, even in the best of cases he *chose* to kill him and apparently didn’t even try to resuscitate him.

Dak'Rah murdered civilians... children. He used his own soldiers as fodder to cover his escape. He built his position and power in the Federation on lies. It most certainly was justice.

Like I said to Sci, I'm just going to be agreeing to disagree with you on this, because you are not going to be convinced of my perspective, and I'm not going to be convinced of yours.



Regarding that fight... like I said before, Dak'Rah was right next to the table with the box that had the knife. M'Benga was on the other side of the room. The fight scene earlier showed Dak'Rah could have fairly easily taken M'Benga. When in a fight for life or death, you fight to save your life. M'Benga not attempting to save his life after the fight... I still shed no tears. He had it coming.

 

[Noname Given]

But... why? Nothing Joseph did was illegal or a violation of orders. Why would he hide it?

Dah'Rak would not plausibly have had the time to already surrender to Starfleet and tell such a story before Joseph had beamed back and reported in.

A Joseph saw it - he failed. He wanted to kill the Klingon general and didn't succeed. Also he DECLINED to go on the secret mission that WAS authorized by Starfleet Intelligence that failed and cost Federation lives; so he may not have wanted to also answer the question:

"Well, why didn't you go on the AUTHORIZED mission in the first place?"

He was ashamed and also probably angry with himself and just wanted to forget it and try to move on.

 

[drt]

But M’Benga is a skilled fighter and a doctor, even in the best of cases he *chose* to kill him and apparently didn’t even try to resuscitate him.

I'd assume they tried, but he died anyway.

It would be even more suspicious otherwise.

 

[Trekker4747]

As I re-watch, a "meaningful" moment comes in it when M'Benga and Rah are fighting, Rah asks M'Benga join him in peace talks and to ask him anything. M'Bengas asks if he did kill his own men, Rah says he did making up who fought hardest all of which M'Benga knew were lies AMD made him less likely to trust him.

Missed this detail on first watch. (Again, I was tired at the time.)

 

[Charles Phipps]

A Joseph saw it - he failed. He wanted to kill the Klingon general and didn't succeed. Also he DECLINED to go on the secret mission that WAS authorized by Starfleet Intelligence that failed and cost Federation lives; so he may not have wanted to also answer the question:

"Well, why didn't you go on the AUTHORIZED mission in the first place?"

He was ashamed and also probably angry with himself and just wanted to forget it and try to move on.

The show also makes it clear if M'Benga had gotten the special forces their juice, had participated himself, they would have ended the fighting.

Rather than a Christian "forgiveness is best" and Secular Humanist, "We have evolved." The moral lesson here is that of Achilles.

"If you'd gotten out of your tent earlier, you might have saved your friends."

 

[Okmyx]

As I re-watch, a "meaningful" moment comes in it when M'Benga and Rah are fighting, Rah asks M'Benga join him in peace talks and to ask him anything. M'Bengas asks if he did kill his own men, Rah says he did making up who fought hardest all of which M'Benga knew were lies AMD made him less likely to trust him.

Missed this detail on first watch. (Again, I was tired at the time.)

Yes, and that brings more meaning to the lines... "Klingon X (I don't remember the name) fought the hardest. He was the one who stopped me from getting to you. I am the Butcher of J'Gal."

 

[firehawk12]

Having listened to a review from the perspective of someone who didn't like the episode, I get the point where a more satisfying ending would have been Rah to be outed and for M'Benga to publicly deal with what he did. Certainly that would be the more 'traditionally satisfying' Star Trek ending.

But I also take the point that if they use M'Benga in some upcoming Gorn conflict - perhaps the workaround being they send M'Benga to go assassinate some Gorn leader that prevents a war and also allows them to keep to the canon of no one from Starfleet knowing what a Gorn looks like by writing M'Benga off the show - then at least this ending becomes a building block to something bigger.

As it is, it does feel like the 'dark middle chapter' of his arc anyway.

 

[Ovation]

where a more satisfying ending would have been Rah to be outed and for M'Benga to publicly deal with what he did

Meh. The ambiguity of the actual episode ending is what gives it much of its power. Things entirely spelt out are less thought provoking.

 

[fireproof78]

Reminded me of this:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Charles Phipps]

Meh. The ambiguity of the actual episode ending is what gives it much of its power. Things entirely spelt out are less thought provoking.

M'Benga didn't want to undo the peace but he did find it obscene the man was living a life of luxury in exile.

 

[cooleddie74]

Starfleet might take umbrage but the Empire would probably hear of the incident and say Rah had become too soft and weak and deserved to be killed by the hand of a Starfleet healer. He made his hard, solid bed and now it was time to lie on it.

 

[Unique]

Ensconced in my bubble, I totally missed an interpretation of the episode.
But I just saw M'Benga trending on Twitter.
Tweet link: https://twitter.com/Lyrical_Girafe/status/1685326376583516160

I had failed to consider the fact who the war criminal in the crew is. Who suddenly may have become a murderer because of his feelings? The black man.

Ouch.

Killing enemy officers in single combat in a time of war is not a war crime. I’m not happy about all their choices for this character, but while he’s a complicated man suffering with PTSD he’s no war criminal.
Also…it would be a shame if black men didn’t get to portray complex characters dealing with weighty issues because writers were afraid they’d be seen as racist for writing the character as flawed. I can think of some examples of the opposite, when the black character is the salt of the earth and that gets criticized as a kind of racism, too.

I hadn’t once considered this from the angle of how the Doctor is representing his race, perhaps because I’ve never seen human skin color factor into anything in Trek. It’s always felt colorblind to me, as a viewer with no exposure to the fandom until I found this place a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been astonished to read numerous references to racism and racist “fans”….it’s so not in the spirit of Star Trek.
I’d rather not see the actor’s work put down as a disservice to his entire race because the writing team tried to give him a compelling backstory, depth, complexity, room for healing and growth in his character arc, and use his real life martial arts expertise in the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The director is a black man. The writer is Hispanic. Thought I'd throw that out there.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The director is a black man. The writer is Hispanic. Thought I'd throw that out there.

I think the larger thing to note here is the fact this is a story no one would blind an eye at with a white man, save as a story of guilt and revenge.

 

[fireproof78]

I hadn’t once considered this from the angle of how the Doctor is representing his race, perhaps because I’ve never seen human skin color factor into anything in Trek. It’s always felt colorblind to me, as a viewer with no exposure to the fandom until I found this place a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been astonished to read numerous references to racism and racist “fans”….it’s so not in the spirit of Star Trek.
I’d rather not see the actor’s work put down as a disservice to his entire race because the writing team tried to give him a compelling backstory, depth, complexity, room for healing and growth in his character arc, and use his real life martial arts expertise in the show.

This is my view as well. M'Benga is a well written, complex character, with a story that is strongly reflective of the mental health struggles of multiple veterans, regardless of race. Many are too quick to say, "Well, he should have just asked for help!" That's very difficult for many veterans, much less helping and healing professionals who are used to providing the help not receiving the help.

 

[Trekker4747]

Having listened to a review from the perspective of someone who didn't like the episode, I get the point where a more satisfying ending would have been Rah to be outed and for M'Benga to publicly deal with what he did. Certainly that would be the more 'traditionally satisfying' Star Trek ending.

But I also take the point that if they use M'Benga in some upcoming Gorn conflict - perhaps the workaround being they send M'Benga to go assassinate some Gorn leader that prevents a war and also allows them to keep to the canon of no one from Starfleet knowing what a Gorn looks like by writing M'Benga off the show - then at least this ending becomes a building block to something bigger.

As it is, it does feel like the 'dark middle chapter' of his arc anyway.

M'Benga can't be "written off the show" he's in TOS.