Agreed. It's why until PICARD season 2, DISCO season 2 was the worst season in the franchise. Really, only Pike made it bearable.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Agreed. It's why until PICARD season 2, DISCO season 2 was the worst season in the franchise. Really, only Pike made it bearable.
While I dislike the second half of S2 DISCO for other reasons, the AI & S31 stuff did serve a purpose. There had to be a reason to send the ship forward & a set up for Yeoh's show.
I don't think either was particularly well done, but there was a reason.
FWIW, the first half of S2 is my favorite DISCO.
Despite the fact I quoted Jackoverfull's statement, mine was a general statement about anyone who would be fine with such a thing. If it came across as saying him specifically, my apologies. I should have been clearer.
And at the very least, Dak'Rah should not have been given such a position in the Federation because of his previous records, which was stated in the episode... at least three things. (A starbase, Athos colony, and another one Ortegas mentioned.)
And how convenient that Dak'Rah killed the only three people who could have corroborated his story.
This again shows my point earlier about the good and bad of the Federation... the idealism and the lack of seeing reality. The Federation was naive at best and incompetant at worst with everything about Dak'Rah.
I get what you're saying, but it easily becomes a slippery slope. Also, how many death penalty cases get proved innocent after it's too late? Lock them away? Absolutely. But death is final. And we humans can give that verdict out too easily.
Indeed..but it creates good drama.
“Mercy to the wicked is cruelty to the innocent.”
I was just stating a fact.
You are totally missing the point. And more murder doesn’t “solve” murder.
Also, as written above, the ambassador was not threatening any more lives at that point.
I completely agree with and am perfectly fine with there being proof before a death penalty. And all the people I mentioned were proven mass murderers.
But I especially cross the line with children. Why the hell should someone be able to live in prison, getting three meals a day, breathing air, being able to read whatever they want after they kill children? Children who'll never be able to enjoy food again, read again, play again, breathe again... live again? They robbed those kids of not just their future, but our species' future. Who knows what those murdered kids would have accomplished... could have been scientists who make incredible breakthroughs like cures for cancer or diabetes, or a paramedic saving many lives over the course of their own.
And you are missing the point. It wasn't murder. It was justice. Just like those examples I listed above.
And actually, it looks like Dak'Rah was threatening M'Benga. So yes, he was threatening more lives.
Whatever M'Benga did it wasn't cold-blooded murder. I doubt even Lt. Columbo could execute a successful arrest and charge of someone like M'Benga for what happened behind that frosted wall paneling.
Again, missing the point of how they presented the story. It may have been justice rather than murder. It may have been a man in an unbalanced state of mind that different people might judge either capable of responsibility or not. Or, it may have been murder of some kind.*
You know what? It may be possible to make an educated guess about the intention of the storytellers in this instance - it's in plain sight. Or you could at least argue that it is. But the thing that cannot be argued with is that they chose not to give the audience the critical information necessary for them to know for certain.
*"Murder" is primarily a legal term, and what it means depends on many things. I think people in this topic are holding it to mean some kind of premeditated act for which M'Benga (or Rah) is morally responsible and probably legally culpable.
That's a unique take on the performance. Thought there were layers myself. The "good" Klingon who has seen the light is partially false. An identity Rah has created for himself. Underneath is the man who gave the kill orders for anyone not a Klingon soldier. And the man who ran and built a new persona on a lie.
"I'm fine."
At one and the same time the most unbelievable line of dialogue and the most convincing. In a way...M'Benga isn't. He's going to live with plunging that d'ktagh into Rah no matter who first grabbed it and initiated the struggle. And yet, I can believe him. The monster has been silenced. And we've all been in that moment when no, things AREN'T "fine" but they're okay for now.
And sometimes the now is all that's needed to recuperate from experiencing trauma.
At one and the same time the most unbelievable line of dialogue and the most convincing. In a way...M'Benga isn't. He's going to live with plunging that d'ktagh into Rah no matter who first grabbed it and initiated the struggle. And yet, I can believe him. The monster has been silenced. And we've all been in that moment when no, things AREN'T "fine" but they're okay for now.
And sometimes the now is all that's needed to recuperate from experiencing trauma.
I'd say that Rah is a man who is hiding from who he is and what he did. He hasn't accepted moral responsibility within himself for his actions. This is part of what torments M'Benga - "You make it look easy."
What Rah has done, is to commit himself with determination to a path that he believes balances out his past. He didn't choose it with clean hands - it's his path to a rehabilitated reputation and reentry into some cultural/political elite, if not his own - and his self-justifications are facile. When he's challenged directly with losing all that, he reverts to his old ways.
What Rah has done, is to commit himself with determination to a path that he believes balances out his past. He didn't choose it with clean hands - it's his path to a rehabilitated reputation and reentry into some cultural/political elite, if not his own - and his self-justifications are facile. When he's challenged directly with losing all that, he reverts to his old ways.
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I would like to say, I personally had kind of a small re-evaluation of the episode since I saw it yesterday and thought more about it since then.
What really didn't gel with me was how the goofy, M'Benga as a Jack Reacher/John Wick power fantasy and a trope-y Hollywood badguy really clashed with the more serious war tone.
It wasn't as bad as in the season premiere with the slo-mo fistfights against mooks forgetting they have knifes and guns. But still.
However - in total I would put it up a notch, because the war itself was depicted absolutely perfect. No shooty-shooty action glory. But a constant noise on the background. And young soldiers being rotated in, and carried back out again. And the people being aware of the necessity of it (protecting their home), while still seeing the audacious human costs and senselessness of the situation itself. In this regard it was better than most other portrayals of a "necessary" war of good vs evil in sci-fi, and certainly the best portrayal of the DISCO war.
So in the end I would still put this one in the "firmly good" category of episodes. And even if not completely perfect, it absolutely elevates the series as a whole to also tackle such serious episodes so well.
What really didn't gel with me was how the goofy, M'Benga as a Jack Reacher/John Wick power fantasy and a trope-y Hollywood badguy really clashed with the more serious war tone.
It wasn't as bad as in the season premiere with the slo-mo fistfights against mooks forgetting they have knifes and guns. But still.
However - in total I would put it up a notch, because the war itself was depicted absolutely perfect. No shooty-shooty action glory. But a constant noise on the background. And young soldiers being rotated in, and carried back out again. And the people being aware of the necessity of it (protecting their home), while still seeing the audacious human costs and senselessness of the situation itself. In this regard it was better than most other portrayals of a "necessary" war of good vs evil in sci-fi, and certainly the best portrayal of the DISCO war.
So in the end I would still put this one in the "firmly good" category of episodes. And even if not completely perfect, it absolutely elevates the series as a whole to also tackle such serious episodes so well.
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Even if it was the "worst" season I still enjoyed watching.
Or indeed a traumatized vet now acing as CMO on the flagship kinda went a little stabby...
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