Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"

[Mr Awe]

Doesn't the scene with Pike negate that whole thing though. I think it's obvious that M'Benga killed him, but it was that conversation with Pike that probably bothered me the most.

At first the conversation with Pike bothered me too. But I can buy the argument that he was there as a friend offering support and taking in information at that point. There surely will be an investigation imposed (appropriately) by Starfleet. So, Pike didn't really have to do more at that point. Security will begin their investigation immediately no doubt.

In the real world, I think the producers didn't want to cram Pike's reaction into the few final moments beyond what they showed. Instead, I'm hoping they'll devote more time in a future episode.

 

[Mudd]

There's not supposed to be a question whether M'Benga killed Rah.

The question is the circumstances.

Whether it was self defense or not is deliberately left unknown.

 

[Mr Awe]

M'Benga completed his J'Gal mission while on board the Enterprise. Nurse Chapel charged him with killing those responsible, and he did.

 

[Commander Troi]

I think this episode also did a good job of raising (but not answering) the age-old question of what's the difference between justice and vengeance. Rah arguably deserved justice for his war crimes. But is what M'Benga was going to do justice? Coming on the heels of the Special Ops squad coming back in bags and the relationship Joseph had formed with the young ensign, it's easy to see revenge in his desire to make them pay.

 

[Farscape One]

Sometimes justice and revenge are the same thing. Just because someone got revenge doesn't mean justice wasn't served. Some people do deserve that kind of wrath.

 

[cooleddie74]

All we know is M'Benga killed him. Whether it was self defense or homicide is totally up to the viewer to decide, and either way I'd have sympathy for M'Benga.

He'd have a good reason either way even if it wouldn't stand up to legal scrutiny.

 

[Vger23]

This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. Great recovery from last week’s non-event. M’Benga is easily my favorite SNW character, and I thought this handled a lot of difficult topics with power and sensitivity.

10/10 for me.

 

[tomalak301]

This discussion led me to rewatch this episode. I haven't rewatched the episodes this season (I will, when the season is done, but probably next year), but this one made me think a lot.

I originally gave this episode a 6. I think on the second viewing I would bump that up to an 8. I still have some issues with the ending, but it was a lot more clear than it was close to Midnight on the original viewing. They carried the theme of people's perception of War all the way through. I actually focused this episode on Uhura's reactions versus Erica and M'Benga. Uhura was naive and just inquisitive. In a way, she was like Nog before Nog got his Knee cut off in Siege of AR-558/It's Only a Paper Moon. She didn't live through the War, and she sees a Klingon who is an ally. Erica and M'Benga did see the atrocities and they don't see a reformed Klingon. They see a monster. Just that juxtaposition itself made the episode a lot more powerful.

Another thing I appreciated this episode for was I've always wanted SNW to continue where Discovery left off. Heck, I wouldn't mind them bringing back Ash Tyler or L'Rell, but to finally show the horrors of the Klingon War (Something Discovery didn't do well in it's first season) is something I didn't know I would appreciate.

In terms of the M'Benga story and ending, I think this could be one of the best episodes of the modern treks if this story continues. If the federation just shrugs it off and M'Benga doesn't have to face consequences, I probably will have an issue with that (Much like Sisko using WMDs in For the Uniform). If there is something else, then what this episode was trying to convey means a whole lot more.

Do I think this episode is character assassination of M'Benga? No and the recap to Broken Circle and then what happened here improved that opinion for me. Can I still like the character? Sure, in that this episode added more dimensionality to him. Is he my favorite character on SNW? Probably not. That might actually be Chapel now. Jess Bush in this episode was outstanding.

 

[Kzinti]

Truly amazing performance by Babs and Jess,
this episode sits comfortably with Trek's best. 9/10

edit: if i could i would revise my score to 10/10

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

I enjoyed this a lot (as a Niner I was always going to). The Hoarse Whisperer knocked it out of the park (again). And, since we are in a pause caused by the WGA/SAG-AFTRA strikes, we are in an interesting position where this episode and its reaction has aired before production has started on the next season. I would not at all be surprised if reaction to this and other episodes influences whether or not, and how, the story threads are picked up in S3.

My only criticism is I would not have objected to this having been split into a two parter across two seasons - the flashbacks being almost an entire episode (like Carbon Creek) which would have also been a good way to service Anson Mount's Pat Leave needs; then a follow-on next season with Rah on the ship - allowing both stories to expand more.

 

[flandry84]

I can’t see Starfleet doing a huge investigation into the matter.The phrase “can of worms” comes to mind.
The psychological effects on M’Benga however will no doubt linger on.His friendship with Pike might suffer a bit but Pike really did strike a very tone deaf note all throughout this episode.

 

[JoeZhang]

I can’t see Starfleet doing a huge investigation into the matter.The phrase “can of worms” comes to mind.

Yes - their example of how a peaceful Klingon went mad and attached a war veteran who had to fight for his life [according to the investigation]. Nobody is spending a lot of time on this one.

 

[jackoverfull]

And this wasn't revenge. It was justice. He should never have been made an ambassador for the Federation. He should have been executed... or at the very least, serve a lifetime prison sentence.

unsettling to see someone who watches Star Trek supporting death penalty carries out by a single person who is judge, jury and executioner with no due process.

 

[Farscape One]

unsettling to see someone who watches Star Trek supporting death penalty carries out by a single person who is judge, jury and executioner with no due process.

Unsettling to see that people would be fine with a mass murderer and child killer walk around free and in a high profile position of power and influence.

 

[bookworm8571]

I’d speculate that M’Benga had some involvement with Section 31 and the drug he developed was probably an experiment meant to be used with combat soldiers. Maybe he experimented on himself first and developed his skills in that way. Section 31 was likely heavily involved behind the scenes in that war.

 

[Rahul]

There's not supposed to be a question whether M'Benga killed Rah.

The question is the circumstances.

Whether it was self defense or not is deliberately left unknown.

Absolutely. It's morally grey in the best way - we don't know if M'Benga had a chance to NOT kill him but did anyway, or if it was a genuine self-defense.

Legally M'Benga is 100% in the clear - he told him to leave multiple times, there was an altercation involving a nearby knife, and there's a witness corrobating exactly that. The only question is if the level of force was appropriate - but lacking evidence to the contrary, there'd be an investigation, but no one would prosecute.

"Controversial reformed enemy leader with unclear ties to a massacre gets stabbed during altercation with war veteran from the same massacre" is, like, a juicy headline. And in real life M'Benga would be put on leave during investigation and then transferred to a less prestigious position. But considering how static Trek is with crews - this is more, like, Tom Paris breaking the prime directive (once, for a good reason) and then being demoted, but still serving at the same position.

It's perfect gray zone - with the viewers having to decide on their own if it was mostly right/justified or not, but legally 100% sound.

I just wish the Klingon was less cartoon-y.

Side-note: The Andorian spec-ops commander might be one of my absolute favourite guest characters. His behaviour, the looks (that scarred eye) - I'm a sucker for cool Andorians! RIP, brother.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I don’t think that Trask and M’Benga were in Section 31. They were just special forces like Navy SEALs. I don’t like that people see Section 31 every time something special ops happens. It makes them too powerful and it lets the Federation off the hook too much. Seeing Section 31 everywhere just screams conspiracy theory way too much.

 

[Tallguy]

I don’t think that Trask and M’Benga were in Section 31. They were just special forces like Navy SEALs. I don’t like that people see Section 31 every time something special ops happens. It makes them too powerful and it lets the Federation off the hook too much. Seeing Section 31 everywhere just screams conspiracy theory way too much.

I'm almost tempted to make this my signature.

 

[Tuskin38]

Unsettling to see that people would be fine with a mass murderer and child killer walk around free and in a high profile position of power and influence.

Where did Jackoverfull say they would be ok with that?
They said they’d want him to have a trial. That’s not being free.

 

[Tuskin38]

He should never have been made an ambassador for the Federation. He should have been executed... or at the very least, serve a lifetime prison sentence.

Except the Federation didn’t know he ordered the killings, it’s explained in the episode. He lied and blamed that on his underlings, and claimed that he was appalled at their behaviour.