Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x08 - "Under the Cloak of War"

[Galaxy]

I always rate the episodes immediately after I am finished watching, to document my unfiltered reaction, and I gave this a 9.

However I am now wondering if I should have rated it this high.

I like my Star Trek main characters to be role models, as a child I looked up to Kirk and Picard as role models. This episode completely destroyed the character of M'benga, there is not really any way for the character to recover from this. As others have pointed out this was no manslaughter. M'Benga brought the knife to his offices before the Klingon even arrived, and he knew that everyone would think that the knife belonged to the Klingon. This was an extra legal execution by a skilled assassin who knew how to cover his tracks.

Some are comparing this episode to in the Pale Moonlight. There is an important distinction however. Sisko could not do what was needed to bring the Romulans into the war. He had a mental block that prevented him from going to far. It was Garak who did the dirty work. Yes, Sisko knew he would go of script, but he himself was not capable of pulling the trigger.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Weirdly, a thing that occurred to me in this episode is this is possibly the ONE time I would ever think using Section 31 would be justified since DS9. I would have loved to have it reveal that Dak'Rah was manufactured by a Operation: Paperclip, except the idea wasn't science but DIPLOMACY.

"Starfleet Intelligence grabbed me, lied about my involvement in the massacre, gave me a fake honor and had me going around various planets where I told about how corrupt as well as awful the Klingon Empire was. It's been incredibly effective and we've caused many races to join the Federation or settle the feuds the Klingons have been promoting for their own interests."

I would 1000% prefer THAT Section 31 to the one that does horrific war crimes like experimenting on Changelings.

Some are comparing this episode to in the Pale Moonlight. There is an important distinction however. Sisko could not do what was needed to bring the Romulans into the war. He had a mental block that prevented him from going to far. It was Garak who did the dirty work. Yes, Sisko knew he would go of script, but he himself was not capable of pulling the trigger.

Yes, but I also note that M'Benga tried to stop himself too. Which is an interesting beat.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

We just got an amazing episode about peoples experience in war and how they deal with it, and they're going to follow it up with fucking High School Musical in space.

Yeah, it's "the human adventure." Humans are, famously, multifaceted. Well, at least some are, it seems.

Its a gigantic embarrassment to the entire franchise to do this.

Few things more embarrassing than playing into the worst stereotypes of information-age fandom --- reactionary, angry, claiming ownership over something as intangible as an idea, blinkered, myopic views and narrow minds --- and letting all this tension roil around in you over Horatio Hornblower in Space?

More than anything, I cannot fathom how people can't simply take the good with the bad. Because there, my friend, you find the facts of life.

 

[TerryTrek]

It does reinforce the idea that Kirk was more suitable for the Captain's chair when it came to higher-stakes confrontations with the Romulans and Klingons. Pike is an excellent leader, but as others have said, he isn't perfect.

Yeah. At the end of the day, Kirk has to be the better, more effective Captain. The shows themselves seems to acknowledge that.

I appreciate that Kirk is very tactical and militaristic, quite firm with the chain of command as well and keeping his officers in line. Very inspired by Roddenberry's own militarily experience. We see that in Gene's "The Lieutenant' as well. I like that Wesley's Kirk didn't want to give empty platitudes to Uhura, but tell her firmly that she has to face death point blank.

Nu Pike is too often written to be like;

And I'd prefer him to be more like this guy:

Hopefully the events of 2x10 will change him. Archer was also written as non-threatening 'Sitcom Dad' for S1 and S2. A very laid-back Captain with no backbone. They found an effective way to evolve and salvage that character in the next season. The boyscout thing is played out now, and Anson Mount can deliver so much better if given the opportunity.

 

[Mudd]

I'd rather watch characters crafted as people than as role models.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah. At the end of the day, Kirk has to be the better, more effective Captain. The shows themselves seems to acknowledge that.

Eh, Pike strikes me as much better than Archer even if he's a big softie. We've already seen Pike win several military battles with cunning. Yes, he's a bit TOO much of a teddy bear and ****s up in "Balance of Terror" but I see it as a "wrong man, wrong time."

 

[cooleddie74]

I wouldn't mind a role model. I know life rarely has ones that live up to the image projected so I'm fine with practical heroes who sometimes get dirty fingernails and feel guilty but accomplish their wider goals on behalf of others.

 

[Dar70]

I always rate the episodes immediately after I am finished watching, to document my unfiltered reaction, and I gave this a 9.

However I am now wondering if I should have rated it this high.

I like my Star Trek main characters to be role models, as a child I looked up to Kirk and Picard as role models. This episode completely destroyed the character of M'benga, there is not really any way for the character to recover from this. As others have pointed out this was no manslaughter. M'Benga brought the knife to his offices before the Klingon even arrived, and he knew that everyone would think that the knife belonged to the Klingon. This was an extra legal execution by a skilled assassin who knew how to cover his tracks.

Some are comparing this episode to in the Pale Moonlight. There is an important distinction however. Sisko could not do what was needed to bring the Romulans into the war. He had a mental block that prevented him from going to far. It was Garak who did the dirty work. Yes, Sisko knew he would go of script, but he himself was not capable of pulling the trigger.

Well just think of it as all an alternate universe from the Prime universe and that this M'Benga is different. I don't know what else to tell you. Im just going with it all now. I just consider SNW and DISCO as a reboot. It's probably what they should have just done in the first place.

I liked the episode and just consider this M'Benga as a totally different one. Makes things a lot easier...

 

[Mudd]

Back in the olden days they used to call this kind of thing a "cop-out".

Older than you, and no - bright people never did.

 

[fireproof78]

Back in the olden days they used to call this kind of thing a "cop-out".

I thought Star Trek was to be thought provoking and not just preaching. So, I don't see the "cop-out" in that sense.

 

[cooleddie74]

If this is a "cop-out" then Trek is chock full of them.

 

[Noname Given]

The marriage of Sarek's unnamed son that Picard attends as a young officer.

For all we know, that was Spock.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, that's what most of us assume. They weren't very subtle about it in 1990.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, that's what most of us assume. They weren't very subtle about it in 1990.

The real question is who was the bride?
Chapel has suddenly become the dark horse candidate.

 

[cooleddie74]

Saavik is an actual candidate that's been mentioned. I could believe Saavik was his wife in the early 24th century.

 

[Mudd]

Honestly, after the encounter with the Andorian Black Ops guy I gritted my teeth expecting that at some point, someone would throw out a reference to Section 31. I was thrilled that at no time was that stupid-ass cliche invoked.

 

[Nerys Myk]

T'Pring. Those crazy kids are gonna finally make it!

 

[Galaxy]

Honestly, after the encounter with the Andorian Black Ops guy I gritted my teeth expecting that at some point, someone would throw out a reference to Section 31. I was thrilled that at no time was that stupid-ass cliche invoked.

Yes I was also expecting them to name drop 31 with regards to the special ops team and Project 12.

 

[Nerys Myk]

On my second watch I caught the line about the redshirts being cannon fodder.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That's what happens when you don't have enough qualified enlisted ranks. The Doctor needs a good Electronic's Technician.

Like Chief Pitcairn from "The Cage". I bet he could fix anything. I hope he turns up on SNW somehow! (He's probably the Master CPO of the whole fleet )