Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x05 - "Charades"

[parsonsm]

I'm not sure there has been an episode of SNW that has been so divisive up till this point.

I felt it was average at best, tonally mis-judged at worst.

I don't care about canon relating to events in TOS, as I've never really been a fan of Trek pre TNG, so if Chapel rides Spock into an early grave, as she gave every intention of doing so, I'm not that fussed.

What I do care about though is logical writing, especially when it comes to a Vulcan character.

Spock is a grown man, with or without his Vulcan heritage, and he has not lost his memory or knowledge gained from experiences that he has throughout his life.

As such, there is no reason why he would revert to behaving like some 12-13 year old boy who has hit puberty and suddenly realised that girls are in fact more than just annoying sisters of friends who get in the way when you are trying to play football.

His behaviour - and therefore the writing of his character in this episode is absurd.

As is, the behaviour and writing of the Vulcan 'Matriarch.' I'm sorry but Vulcans are not racist pigs.

The depiction of Vulcans in this episode is nothing more than bad fan-fiction, and shows the writers to have little to no understanding of the Vulcan race or how they have been depicted in Trek in the past.

Next, the comedy in this episode. If I wanted to watch a juvenile teen rom-com aimed at 15-16 years olds ( which I don't) I would not expect to tune into Star Trek to achieve that result.

However, given what is happening in two episodes time with the Lower Decks crossover, I imagine this nonsense is likely to continue.

SNW was interesting in Season 1. It promised a lot, almost as much as the opening credits tease, however Season 2 to this point has been a disaster.

With only ten episodes in a season, a show cannot afford to waste so much time on trifles like this if it wants to be taken seriously.

 

[Farscape One]

Since Strange New Worlds has apparently reinvented itself to be a comedy show, I'm slightly less bothered by the idea of an upcoming crossover with Lower Decks.

I'd also love to see an episode where Pike's cooking goes horribly awry and leaves everyone except for Pelia stricken with debilitating Klingon diarrhea, leading to a madcap episode where the Lanthanite must single-handedly save the day.

SNW has not reinvented itself into a comedy. They'll comedic/light-hearted episodes, but the show itself is not a comedy. Otherwise, you'd have to call the following franchise shows comedies...

TOS (examples: "I, MUDD", "THE TROUBLE WITH TRIBBLES", "A PIECE OF THE ACTION")

TNG (examples: "Manhunt", "Hollow Pursuits", "Qpid")

DS9 (examples: "FASCINATION", "EXPLORERS", "TRIALS AND TRIBBLE-ATIONS", "IN THE CARDS", "HIS WAY")

VGR (examples: "BRIDE OF CHAOTICA!", "SOMEONE TO WATCH OVER ME", "TINKER TENOR DOCTOR SPY", "SPIRIT FOLK")


Not to mention all the comedic/light-hearted scenes peppered into pretty much every series and banter between characters. (Examples: Spock/McCoy, O'Brien/Bashir, Data/Geordi, Tom/Harry)

It's not reinventing itself into a comedy. It's maintaining the spirit of TOS and the franchise by having those times of humor and levity because you need a balance of light and dark. TOS did this. DS9 certainly did, and I would say they were the gold standard in keeping that balance in a series. Otherwise, you end up with another DISCO, STARGATE UNIVERSE, or BSG. (And only BSG was able to maintain that and still be good throughout.)

 

[Mudd]

With only ten episodes in a season, a show cannot afford to waste so much time on trifles like this if it wants to be taken seriously.

A few people loudly disliking a TV episode does not make it "divisive."

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The show's so popular and successful with Trek fans that they can pretty much afford to keep doing the refreshingly entertaining and creative things they've been doing.

 

[Photoman15]

As is, the behaviour and writing of the Vulcan 'Matriarch.' I'm sorry but Vulcans are not racist pigs.

The depiction of Vulcans in this episode is nothing more than bad fan-fiction, and shows the writers to have little to no understanding of the Vulcan race or how they have been depicted in Trek in the past.

Vulcans have ALWAYS been presented as "racist pigs" to varying degrees. They always believed themselves superior. But the Vulcan Matirach was not necessarily portraying a Vulcan racists. She was A MOTHER-IN-LAW.

 

[Unique]

What I do care about though is logical writing, especially when it comes to a Vulcan character.

Spock is a grown man, with or without his Vulcan heritage, and he has not lost his memory or knowledge gained from experiences that he has throughout his life.

The idea that Spock would forget how to project impassivity just because his Vulcan DNA is gone clearly made no sense, but it was the comedic set-up for his friends to mimic his Vulcan self in an affectionate context which made the viewer feel how much of a family the crew is, without anyone weeping and talking about it, a la Discovery. Show, don’t tell.

 

[parsonsm]

Vulcans have ALWAYS been presented as "racist pigs" to varying degrees. They always believed themselves superior. But the Vulcan Matirach was not necessarily portraying a Vulcan racists. She was A MOTHER-IN-LAW.

Whilst i do appreciate the mother-in-law horror angle, I do think its a bit of a stretch to see vulcans portrayed like this.
We have seen an air of superiority at times to be sure, but even in Enterprise early episodes, they were not racist like this, rather a radically over protective parent.

 

[parsonsm]

The idea that Spock would forget how to project impassivity just because his Vulcan DNA is gone clearly made no sense, but it was the comedic set-up for his friends to mimic his Vulcan self in an affectionate context which made the viewer feel how much of a family the crew is, without anyone weeping and talking about it, a la Discovery. Show, don’t tell.

A step up from Discovery in every way to be sure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Whilst i do appreciate the mother-in-law horror angle, I do think its a bit of a stretch to see vulcans portrayed like this.
We have seen an air of superiority at times to be sure, but even in Enterprise early episodes, they were not racist like this, rather a radically over protective parent.

An air of superiority based on race is textbook racism.

 

[parsonsm]

An air of superiority based on race is textbook racism.

I never felt they had this air based on race.

It was based on logic, not so much 'We are vulcans and embrace logic so we are racially superior' - but more ' We embrace logic and are more experienced so you should listen to us.'

But, I admit, its not that simple.

What I do feel is that in Charades the behaviour was pushed to extremes which I saw as being unrealistic.

 

[UssGlenn]

As is, the behaviour and writing of the Vulcan 'Matriarch.' I'm sorry but Vulcans are not racist pigs.

Not everybody, but they do pop up regularly. Spocks childhood bullies, Vulcan Science Academy admission board, Captain of the T'Kumbra, Bunch of Vulcans on ENT

 

[Nerys Myk]

I never felt they had this air based on race.

It was based on logic, not so much 'We are vulcans and embrace logic so we are racially superior' - but more ' We embrace logic and are more experienced so you should listen to us.'

But, I admit, its not that simple.

What I do feel is that in Charades the behaviour was pushed to extremes which I saw as being unrealistic.

You might want to rewatch Star Trek. Vulcans feel they are superior in every way. “We know more and are more experienced” is also textbook racism.

 

[cooleddie74]

ENT Vulcans even in early episodes were haughty, smug and superior-sounding dicks. Remember that none of the three Vulcans who visited the hospital where Klaang was being treated thought Earth could handle taking an injured Klingon back to Qo'noS. Self-righteousness and paternalism dripped off them and they seemed to barely tolerate humans.

 

[fireproof78]

Vulcans have ALWAYS been presented as "racist pigs" to varying degrees. They always believed themselves superior. But the Vulcan Matirach was not necessarily portraying a Vulcan racists. She was A MOTHER-IN-LAW.

Yup. Going back to Amok Time.

 

[parsonsm]

You might want to rewatch Star Trek. Vulcans feel they are superior in every way. “We know more and are more experienced” is also textbook racism.

Suggesting that I rewatch Star Trek is a bit unnceccesary. There is no need to resort to personal attacks when discussing a fictional television show.

'We know more and are more experienced.' I cannot agree with you that that is textbook racism.

If that was the case then it would be arguable that all parents are racist, as are all teachers etc.

 

[StarMan]

Spock is a grown man, with or without his Vulcan heritage, and he has not lost his memory or knowledge gained from experiences that he has throughout his life.

As such, there is no reason why he would revert to behaving like some 12-13 year old boy who has hit puberty and suddenly realised that girls are in fact more than just annoying sisters of friends who get in the way when you are trying to play football.

His behaviour - and therefore the writing of his character in this episode is absurd.

How should someone who has had half the DNA ripped from their being act? What percentage of Spock's Vulcan DNA managed impulse control? Emotional stability?

The argument appears to be - Spock had all his memories. Ergo, he should know how to act. I think that argument wholly underestimates how much of our being is tied up in those squiggly little bits of biology. If such a thing were possible and I found myself reconstituted into a new entity minus 50% of my DNA, I sure as shit wouldn't want to predict how I might act / feel.

 

[BK613]

And that makes Chapel a "Karen". Demanding to speak to the Manager (Yellow) after Blue would not help her.

There are times when it is perfectly appropriate to ask to speak to the manager in an attempt to resolve an issue. Doing so does not automatically make a white woman a "Karen."

Karens do so in a belligerent manner and make unreasonable demands to establish dominance over "the help." Chapel did not behave in the manner of a Karen.

Nuance and context, how do they work?

This euphemism really needs to DIAF.
Dissing every person on the planet named 'Karen' just so you can virtue signal...

 

[Farscape One]

Suggesting that I rewatch Star Trek is a bit unnceccesary. There is no need to resort to personal attacks when discussing a fictional television show.

'We know more and are more experienced.' I cannot agree with you that that is textbook racism.

If that was the case then it would be arguable that all parents are racist, as are all teachers etc.

It's racist when you look down on another species because they don't have your sense of logic. Or a huge example... look at how Spock was treated by other Vulcans at various times in his life because of his human half.

Or Captain Solok in DS9's "TAKE ME OUT TO THE HOLOSUITE". He was definitely a racist captain.

And never mind all the high levels of arrogance you find in Vulcans throughout the franchise. Arrogance is also one of the prime ingredients for racism.

Regarding the Vulcans in ENT... while they do come across as overbearing parents, they do so in a way that goes above condescension and arrogance, particularly in the first season. Outside of T'Pol, Soval was the sort of face for all Vulcans and their dealings with humans. And while he did soften his view of them, it took a long time for him to do it. Hell, Admiral Forrest had to die to save Soval's life in order to turn him around.

Basically, Vulcans are dicks. They have a lot of good traits, but they really do come off as dicks. Look carefully again at Nimoy's Spock, or how Tim Russ portrays Tuvok. There's a lot of snark and condescension that's buried just beneath the surface in a lot of their personal interactions with others. Actors have made the mistake of portraying Vulcans as emotionless. The best ones, like Nimoy and Russ, simply suppress the emotions to a level that's smack dab in between emotionless and controlled. That's a hard balance to achieve, but it's why those two were so good at it.

 

[Farscape One]

This euphemism really needs to DIAF.
Dissing every person on the planet named 'Karen' just so you can virtue signal...

I completely agree. People should just come up with another term other than a person's name. Humans come up with new terms for things all the time, so this shouldn't be a problem.

(For context, my mom's name is Karen, and I cannot stand people using that term because my mom is the furthest thing from the used term one can be.)

 

[fireproof78]

Well, humans already have such a term. It just wasn't typically used in polite company though that is changing.

 

[Unique]