Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

[DEWLine]

Any direct or indirect references to PICARD season 2 in the episode (Adam Soong, the Shenzhen Convention banning human genetic engineering, or even human spaceflight within the solar system)?

Sadly not.

This is probably the most believable aspect of things: the Noonien-Singh Institute hiding Khan as they did. Canada's got a sieve of laws when it comes to money-laundering...and who was paid to look the other way about this bit of human trafficking, I wonder?

 

[Tuskin38]

Only Seven did reference those events, and she may be aware of alternate realities from her time in the Borg Collective.

the crew of the Relativity didn't argue against her saying that that First Contact was a paradox leading to the formation of the Federation.

First Contact didn't alter the timeline, it was a paradox. It always happened, or at the very least lead to the exact same events still happening.

 

[DaveyNY]

Canada, whatever.

Heh ... that's like confusing NYC with Chicago.

They both have a river running through them.

 

[Paterson]

Canada, whatever.

Your complaint was that it wasn't going anywhere strange and new, yet clearly Canada is both to you.

 

[Oso Blanco]

First Contact didn't alter the timeline, it was a paradox. It always happened, or at the very least lead to the exact same events still happening.

I think it did alter the timeline. Anyway, it's still an nice explanation for all the descrepancies in Enterprise, Discovery and Strange New Worlds.

 

[TerryTrek]

I think it did alter the timeline. Anyway, it's still an nice explanation for all the descrepancies in Enterprise, Discovery and Strange New Worlds.

Well now we've gotten the official explanation for Discovery/SNW. Temporal wars, and Earth's Eugenic crisis delayed by almost 50 years.

You'd think such a major change would drastically alter the 23rd century, yet Pike, Spock and Kirk somehow still exist. Albeit, different versions of them. Potentially with different genetics.

Perhaps that was by design, since they are so critical to the timeline.

 

[Oddish]

The theme of this episode is one that I've seen explored in other stories, the "would you go back in time to prevent a tragedy" question. Such as killing Hitler before he came to power (or taking him out of play in another way, as you can do in the game "Titanic: Adventure out of Time"). In this case, it's suggested that preventing the horrific events would have made things worse in the long run.

 

[Tuskin38]

I think it did alter the timeline. Anyway, it's still an nice explanation for all the descrepancies in Enterprise, Discovery and Strange New Worlds.

But there's nothing in canon to back it up, and the writers/creators have said otherwise.

 

[Arpy]

Come talk SNW on the Trek Zoom today at 9 PM BST / 4 PM EDT. Link will be posted at time of event.

 

[Borgminister]

One thing that struck me about the episode is how well it was scored... all of the beats fit the mood of the scene. I liked the inclusion of the Department of Temporal Investigations at the end, as telegraphed as it was, and got a little bit of Section 31 vibes from the final scene. Wesley as Kirk was pretty darned good, in fact I could've sworn he embodied Shatner in the chess reaction shots... The comedic beats were all there, from Spock's too-loud lute to a duck, duck, go reference. I'm not sold on Carol Kane's character, kind of reminds me of the Pulaski gambit in Next Gen... she's an odd fit to an already fleshed out crew in my opinion. I wouldn't call this a classic in the vein of City on the Edge of Forever, but it was a serviceable entry and fairly well-told story, with decent, if not outstanding, chemistry between La'an and alt-Kirk. A low 9 from me.

 

[Bea Jonas]

I watched it yesterday. Liked the chemistry between Chong and Wesley, disliked the contemporary song choices on the soundtrack. Overall, I felt it was a pale imitation of City on the Edge of Forever, much like the previous ep's (failed) attempt to recall TNG's The Measure of a Man. Still waiting for season two to soar.

Spoiler

Ten demerits for Security Chief La'an leaving a gun with kid Khan—reduced to five if it was out of ammo.

 

[E-DUB]

I might not have a problem with the Eugenics War being pushed forward a few decades, but not with the same players. I recall a SF story in which a time traveler tries to prevent the rise of Hitler by insuring that Germany wins World War One. This results in the creation of a hyper-nationalist movement rising in France, centered on DeGaulle, with the implication that events would play out from there with catastrophic results.

Anyway, for me, the great moral quandary has never been "Do you kill Hitler?" But what if your time machine will only take you to, say, 1865? Do you kill Hitler's mother?

 

[fireproof78]

But what if your time machine will only take you to, say, 1865? Do you kill Hitler's mother?

I believe The Outer Limits dealt with such a theory.

I might not have a problem with the Eugenics War being pushed forward a few decades, but not with the same players. I

We don't know who the players are, beyond Khan.

 

[Bea Jonas]

Anyway, for me, the great moral quandary has never been "Do you kill Hitler?" But what if your time machine will only take you to, say, 1865? Do you kill Hitler's mother?

That's what I thought time-traveler Kathryn Heigel should have done in the Twilight Zone episode, Cradle of Darkness.

 

[Farscape One]

I didn't see that at all, it's just how time-travel eps work. It's always amused me the one thing they neve3r have enough of in time-travel stories... is time.

"Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow" contains...

1. Sera, a Romulan disguised as a human.
2. A lengthy car chase.
3. Story dealt with a lead character's ancestor, in this case La'an.
4. Took place in the 2020s.
5. Timeline watchers/fixers, in this case the Department of Temporal Investigations.
6. Got help from a very long lived ally, Pelia.
7. Altered Earth has massive environmental damage.
8. Federation is completely gone, replaced by an organization currently at war.
9. Stop a fork in the road event.
10. Khan.


PICARD season 2 contains...

1. Tallin, a Romulan disguised as a human.
2. A lengthy car chase.
3. Story dealt with a lead character's ancestor, in this case Picard.
4. Took place in the 2020s.
5. Timeline watchers/fixers, in this case the Tallin and Wesley at the end.
6. Got help from a very long lived ally, Guinan.
7. Altered Earth has massive environmental damage.
8. Federation is completely gone, replaced by an organization currently at war.
9. Stop a fork in the road event.
10. Khan reference with Soong getting the file on him.


The amount of parallels and items being aped from that season are far too many to just be a 'passing similarity' to other time travel stories used.

Like I said, this episode essentially proved PICARD season 2 was far, far too long because while this is the least favorite episode of SNW for me, it's still much better than that season was.

 

[fireproof78]

Comes down to execution.

 

[Farscape One]

I believe The Outer Limits dealt with such a theory.


We don't know who the players are, beyond Khan.

The 2002 version of THE TWILIGHT ZONE had Katherine Heigl deal with the issue... and the parents ended up finding another baby instead. Very likely causing the very thing they were trying to stop.

 

[Farscape One]

Comes down to execution.

Totally agreed. This episode was definitely better than PICARD season 2. The execution was far better. Still wasn't great for me, though.

Christina Chong really, really elevated this episode... I have almost never given 2 extra points to an episode only because of a single person's performance, but she totally deserved the score.

She needs to be nominated, and win, an Emmy for this.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I suppose the mission could have secured more decent funding from La'an singing her cover of "Twin Flames" on the street corner.

 

[Mudd]

One thing that struck me about the episode is how well it was scored... all of the beats fit the mood of the scene. I liked the inclusion of the Department of Temporal Investigations at the end, as telegraphed as it was, and got a little bit of Section 31 vibes from the final scene. Wesley as Kirk was pretty darned good, in fact I could've sworn he embodied Shatner in the chess reaction shots... The comedic beats were all there, from Spock's too-loud lute to a duck, duck, go reference. I'm not sold on Carol Kane's character, kind of reminds me of the Pulaski gambit in Next Gen... she's an odd fit to an already fleshed out crew in my opinion. I wouldn't call this a classic in the vein of City on the Edge of Forever, but it was a serviceable entry and fairly well-told story, with decent, if not outstanding, chemistry between La'an and alt-Kirk. A low 9 from me.

Loved the moment when someone mispronounced La'an's name as "Noonian-Soong."