Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Every trek show that has had an episode set in the present or near present has had obvious differences from real life. Not really anything new.
Well, maybe not Carpenter Street.
I really feel for La'an, though. Losing one of the few guys she connects with... having to save a future genocidal maniac... and not being able to talk about it. And she's already got serious emotional issues (not a shot, if I went through what she did, I'd be on a funny farm somewhere) to work through.
If only more of the posts were actually about star trek.
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND IF THE FAKE WAR DIDNT HAPPEN IN FAKE 1992 THEN MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE
And hotel rooms are expensive! It was a suite, for fuck's sakes!
Okay, so I'm late to the party as usual. I've said it the past few weeks, but last season I thought SNW was pretty much middle of the road Star Trek. I think I called it 'Your Grandad's Star Trek' at one point and while I enjoyed it well enough, I quite easily dropped it halfway through the season and caught up a few months later.
S02E01 10/10
S02E03 10/10
So2E03... I need a bigger number than 10.
First off:
1) Christina Chong
As an actor, she had to do a lot of heavy lifting in this episode and she absolutely sold it. I haven't been affected by anything like that in quite some time. Wasn't she amazing? Seriously? I haven't seen a performance like that on TV for years now (and I watch a lot of shows). Sublime.
2) Paul Wesley
I wasn't against his performance in S01, I thought he did a passable job, but here he is on fire. He manages to evoke Shatner's delivery without verging into parody and I have no problem at all accepting him as James T. Kirk.
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Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Great story. A script that licks along at a great pace. Lovely cinematography and performances all around and a Star Trek show that is doing these 'character focus' episodes deftly and isn't afraid of that. SNW just pushed all it's main cast into the background bar one and gave her a chance to shine. And shine she did like a supernova.
This show deserves a larger audience. It seems to have hit a stride in S02. The whole show moves with a confidence and swagger that has been missing from Star Trek for a long time. I loved it from beginning to end and can't wait to see next weeks.
Glorious.
S02E01 10/10
S02E03 10/10
So2E03... I need a bigger number than 10.
First off:
1) Christina Chong
As an actor, she had to do a lot of heavy lifting in this episode and she absolutely sold it. I haven't been affected by anything like that in quite some time. Wasn't she amazing? Seriously? I haven't seen a performance like that on TV for years now (and I watch a lot of shows). Sublime.
2) Paul Wesley
I wasn't against his performance in S01, I thought he did a passable job, but here he is on fire. He manages to evoke Shatner's delivery without verging into parody and I have no problem at all accepting him as James T. Kirk.
-
Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Great story. A script that licks along at a great pace. Lovely cinematography and performances all around and a Star Trek show that is doing these 'character focus' episodes deftly and isn't afraid of that. SNW just pushed all it's main cast into the background bar one and gave her a chance to shine. And shine she did like a supernova.
This show deserves a larger audience. It seems to have hit a stride in S02. The whole show moves with a confidence and swagger that has been missing from Star Trek for a long time. I loved it from beginning to end and can't wait to see next weeks.
Glorious.
The conceit in past series has been that history could still flow into Star Trek's. Key dates were either concurrent or in the future, or differences were covered up, kept secret, or too insignificant to matter.* In this case, it's set in the near past, but with obvious major differences. The conceit at air time that it could still flow into Star Trek's timeline (without further time travel alteration) is no longer tenable. That's a first.
* - Example: "Future's End" was set in 1996 and aired in 1996, but there were still a few weeks left in 1996 for the USS Voyager to appear in the sky. Not so in this case. This week's episode was set in 2022 but was aired in 2023.
I mean, nobody's going to look for the Stanley Cup in Canada.
OUCH EHH!
Nah, just that the likelihood of such a project in Canada, where there's so many governmental regulations, is less likely than somewhere in China or Iran or Russia even. No oversight, officials to bribe to keep secret, etc.
Are you insinuating ignorance/negligence or corruption?
If the NKVD or the MSS catch you up to no good, they'll send you to a black site and cut off your hands.
Really loved the episode, gave it an 8, but leaning towards a 9 on rewatch….
I personally loved the fact that it is confirmed that the Eugenics Wars didn’t happen in 1992, and I totally agree with Akiva’s reasoning. I think Future’s End had indirectly already confirmed this… Is it really that much different from the Borg appearance in ENT due to the FC effects on the timeline?
My personal biggest surprise with this ep was how much I loved Paul Wesley’s portrayal of James T. Kirk. Wasn’t sold on A Quality Of Mercy back in season 1, even feared a miscast, but Paul made me love his performance in 60 minutes, and that final scene with La’an and luitenant Kirk was amazingly emotional…
I personally loved the fact that it is confirmed that the Eugenics Wars didn’t happen in 1992, and I totally agree with Akiva’s reasoning. I think Future’s End had indirectly already confirmed this… Is it really that much different from the Borg appearance in ENT due to the FC effects on the timeline?
My personal biggest surprise with this ep was how much I loved Paul Wesley’s portrayal of James T. Kirk. Wasn’t sold on A Quality Of Mercy back in season 1, even feared a miscast, but Paul made me love his performance in 60 minutes, and that final scene with La’an and luitenant Kirk was amazingly emotional…
Hey, I've lived in Tarawna for 63 years, and I'm about as unregulated a guy as you could ever meet.
Oh, and I've lived on the street-cart hot-dogs for a lot of those years. They're fucking yummy.
And let's acknowledge that James T. Kirk once again saved the universe.
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It's fucking Vancouver man. People gotta argue even on things that don't make sense to argue about. It's a disease.
I finally caught up on this thread. I gave this a 7, which is honestly my lowest ranking for any episode of SNW to date.
What I liked...
1. Christina Chong - absolutely rocked it here. Excellent, excellent acting. Frankly, her performance is what elevated my rank... I would have given the episode a 5 otherwise.
2. The subtle nods to TOS, like Kirk's difficulty with cars like in "A PIECE OF THE ACTION" and his chess skills.
3. This was almost entirely a condensed version of PICARD season 2, but done much better. (This is kind of damning with faint praise because that season was awful.) This episode proved that PICARD season 2 could have easily been condensed to 4 or 5 episodes... possibly less.
4. The choice La'an was faced when seeing Kid Khan was a nice moral quandary, made much more personal than the 'will you kill baby Hitler' question because of her heritage.
5. Pelia - I absolutely adore Carol Kane, and her character is just so many levels of awesome.
What I didn't like...
1. The fact that so much of the episode was directly lifted from PICARD season 2. I understand similarities are inevitable when dealing with a franchise that contains almost 900 episodes. But damn... the sheer number of things that were similar was just far too much. It's even worse than how many things "ENDGAME" aped from "All Good Things...", though in that case the former was a much worse finale than the latter. (At least here, this episode was a much better version of that season.)
2. Time travel - this is a personal bias, but I'm so sick of time travel being used. It's extremely difficult to make sure all the knots are tied, and creates more problems than it solves.
3. This episode made it clear that the Temporal Wars (obviously the next step of ENTERPRISE's Temporal Cold War) are still a thing... or at least we may see again. I cannot stress this enough... I hate the Temporal Cold War! If there was one thing I'd remove from the franchise permanently, it's that.
4. So what year did this Romulan arrive from? We see a TOS version of the Romulan ship, so it's implied to be sometime in the 23rd century. But Romulans were never shown to have this capability during that time.
5. Multiple unrealistic things took me out of the episode... the cops just letting them go like they did, earning that much money from playing chess on the street, taking buses and crossing the border from Toronto to Vermont... and back again in such a short time.
This episode illustrates what I see is a major problem with the writers franchise... trying to make the STAR TREK universe match our own timeline. It's causing more problems than necessary. You can tell great stories and have great morality plays and great drama and tell uplifting stories of how humanity can be better without this almost compulsive need to make the history of ST line up with our own.
Regarding Paul Wesley as Kirk... both of his appearances are alternate timeline versions of the Kirk we know, so I can let it pass for now. But I am not really sold on him yet. He does channel some of the more important qualities, like his ability to think multiple steps ahead. (His chess skills, both here and in TOS, are a great subtle illustration of that trait.) But there's just something off with him... I can't quite put my finger on it. We'll see when his appearance is the real deal, whenever that will be.
Overall, this was a mediocre episode elevated greatly by superb acting. It's my least favorite episode of the series so far, but if my worst episode is a 7, then I am perfectly fine with that.
What I liked...
1. Christina Chong - absolutely rocked it here. Excellent, excellent acting. Frankly, her performance is what elevated my rank... I would have given the episode a 5 otherwise.
2. The subtle nods to TOS, like Kirk's difficulty with cars like in "A PIECE OF THE ACTION" and his chess skills.
3. This was almost entirely a condensed version of PICARD season 2, but done much better. (This is kind of damning with faint praise because that season was awful.) This episode proved that PICARD season 2 could have easily been condensed to 4 or 5 episodes... possibly less.
4. The choice La'an was faced when seeing Kid Khan was a nice moral quandary, made much more personal than the 'will you kill baby Hitler' question because of her heritage.
5. Pelia - I absolutely adore Carol Kane, and her character is just so many levels of awesome.
What I didn't like...
1. The fact that so much of the episode was directly lifted from PICARD season 2. I understand similarities are inevitable when dealing with a franchise that contains almost 900 episodes. But damn... the sheer number of things that were similar was just far too much. It's even worse than how many things "ENDGAME" aped from "All Good Things...", though in that case the former was a much worse finale than the latter. (At least here, this episode was a much better version of that season.)
2. Time travel - this is a personal bias, but I'm so sick of time travel being used. It's extremely difficult to make sure all the knots are tied, and creates more problems than it solves.
3. This episode made it clear that the Temporal Wars (obviously the next step of ENTERPRISE's Temporal Cold War) are still a thing... or at least we may see again. I cannot stress this enough... I hate the Temporal Cold War! If there was one thing I'd remove from the franchise permanently, it's that.
4. So what year did this Romulan arrive from? We see a TOS version of the Romulan ship, so it's implied to be sometime in the 23rd century. But Romulans were never shown to have this capability during that time.
5. Multiple unrealistic things took me out of the episode... the cops just letting them go like they did, earning that much money from playing chess on the street, taking buses and crossing the border from Toronto to Vermont... and back again in such a short time.
This episode illustrates what I see is a major problem with the writers franchise... trying to make the STAR TREK universe match our own timeline. It's causing more problems than necessary. You can tell great stories and have great morality plays and great drama and tell uplifting stories of how humanity can be better without this almost compulsive need to make the history of ST line up with our own.
Regarding Paul Wesley as Kirk... both of his appearances are alternate timeline versions of the Kirk we know, so I can let it pass for now. But I am not really sold on him yet. He does channel some of the more important qualities, like his ability to think multiple steps ahead. (His chess skills, both here and in TOS, are a great subtle illustration of that trait.) But there's just something off with him... I can't quite put my finger on it. We'll see when his appearance is the real deal, whenever that will be.
Overall, this was a mediocre episode elevated greatly by superb acting. It's my least favorite episode of the series so far, but if my worst episode is a 7, then I am perfectly fine with that.
It’s Toronto. If you’re going to nitpick and experience anguish over entertainment, at least get it right.
One thing I feel I probably should point out...
My wife really loved this episode... said it's her favorite one of SNW currently. She has only very little knowledge of TOS (she has not watched any episodes).
Someone in the thread mentioned something about this episode (and the season premiere) being more for the casual viewer. Given the stark difference between my wife's reaction to the episode and mine, there may be merit to that statement.
My wife really loved this episode... said it's her favorite one of SNW currently. She has only very little knowledge of TOS (she has not watched any episodes).
Someone in the thread mentioned something about this episode (and the season premiere) being more for the casual viewer. Given the stark difference between my wife's reaction to the episode and mine, there may be merit to that statement.
It's very clearly Toronto.
I...don't agree.
I didn't see that at all, it's just how time-travel eps work. It's always amused me the one thing they never have enough of in time-travel stories... is time.
The story made it clear there had been more than one. But I agree, I can live without it.
I know wgat you mean and I think I know what it is. S1E10 Kirk is a little different to S2E3 Kirk because neither of them have really been through the fire yet. Prime Kirk often had a lotriding on his shoulders that, for want of a better word, tempered him. Especially seen when she talked to Lieutenant Kirk, not much more than a kid. I recking he could be good in the long run.
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