According to Pike, the Eugenics Wars broke out on January 6th, so their historical records are absolute crap.
Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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According to Pike, the Eugenics Wars broke out on January 6th, so their historical records are absolute crap.
One could argue that changing a character's motivation matters more than switching some plot details around.
It's funny because Across the Spider-Verse is all about how this is a ludicrous idea.
Just saying, Obi-Wan Kenobi is Ben Lars' brother.
The novelizations were said to be canon until TPM.
To which I would reply, "Of course they were! But TOS's job was to get them to stop thinking about the apocalypse and feel good about the future. I can't do that if I have to tell the audience the apocalypse is gonna happen in five years."
You are completely mischaracterizing the point of "Farewell." The point of that episode was not, "You need to let your mom kill herself to achieve a positive agenda." The point of that episode was, "You have spent your entire life refusing to process your grief and trauma over your mother's suicide, and as a result you have been incapable of maintaining the kinds of long-term relationships you as an individual need to acheive happiness and self-actualization. You need to come to terms with your mother's death instead of avoiding it."
No, Pike characterizes the 6 January 2021 coup attempt as being part of a progression of historical events that led to the outbreak of the Second American Civil War, which then evolved into World War III/the Eugenics Wars.
I guess in his mind,
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Loved the episode. Wesley is fine as Kirk. Arguing about the hotel room price is asinine. Hot dogs and poutine in the same day? Seems more like Montréal than Toronto, but I’ll allow it. 
If this show lasts long enough (probably won’t), I’d happily watch a transition from Pike to Kirk and seasons beyond. I simply don’t want the show to end (aren’t very many of those I’ve seen in 50+ years).
If this show lasts long enough (probably won’t), I’d happily watch a transition from Pike to Kirk and seasons beyond. I simply don’t want the show to end (aren’t very many of those I’ve seen in 50+ years).
Yeah, I still don't know how I feel about the fact that humanity needed two Holocausts to figure things out. And that's the BEST CASE scenario because stopping those Holocausts actually makes things worse.
I think there's an aspect of wondering why some of these things are necessary.
Like the changes to the Gorn, why choose to play with these story aspects that have these messy explanations for why things are different (i.e., they had to insert exposition for Sarah the Romulan in order to explain it ... somewhat) when arguably they could have told a similar story that introduces something new and gets to the same emotional place for the characters without having the distraction of how does this Khan fit with TOS Khan?
I mean everyone is coming up with these rationalizations for how all of this is supposed to work, when there's no reason why they needed to touch any of this to begin with. This is a new series that can tell its own stories with new characters and go to new places and introduce new things, but instead feels the need to namecheck and reinterpret past things. And unless that new interpretation is just amazing in comparison, I just wonder why do it?
I find that, for me, it becomes a distraction in what otherwise are good episodes of television.
it isn't, since he always shot first. Greedo shooting first however...
I mean, the changes don't completely override the nostalgia.
If La'an was the descendant of Random Eugenics War Dictator Jules Pierre Mao, no one would care.
To connect.
I didn't hate this one but I didn't really like it either. Boring and I don't know why they have to change the timeline. Silly things that took me out of it like the characters staying in a fancy hotel suite and crossing an international border twice without ID. I haven't really liked 2 out of 3 episodes this season (1 and 3 ) but I'm happy everyone else seems to be enjoying.
Multiple Parallel Universes / Realities have existed in ST long before the JJ-verse / Kelvin-verse.
The Multiverse exists to "Have your Cake & Eat it too".
This way, fans don't get too "Butt-Hurt" over different universes doing things slightly differently.
It's good enough for Earth and all those who call it their home.
Plus we have "StarDates" for a universal middle ground for a date/time system.
Khan says he ruled in the 1990s. Later, someone from the future says the timeline has been changed and Khan was not alive in the 1990s due to the changes but is now born and rules at a later date. Seems pretty conclusive to me. Also, La'an was in no way confused to see a child Khan in the 2030s or whenever this episode took place (that was clearly not the 70s-80s when Khan in the TOS timeline would have been a child) so that is the writer's telling us that this time that La'an was in is her past. Nothing in the episode indicates that the past was a closed loop. Kill child Khan in the 2030s and La'ans future doesn't exist. Child Khan exists in the 2030s and rules in the 2040s-2050s then her timeline exists. This is all from the episode.
I just watched again and I like Wesley's Kirk even more. I wasn't sure the first time he appeared last season, but now I'm all in. As long as Pike is still the captain.Loved the episode. Wesley is fine as Kirk. Arguing about the hotel room price is asinine. Hot dogs and poutine in the same day? Seems more like Montréal than Toronto, but I’ll allow it.
If this show lasts long enough (probably won’t), I’d happily watch a transition from Pike to Kirk and seasons beyond. I simply don’t want the show to end (aren’t very many of those I’ve seen in 50+ years).
That sounds perfectly reasonable, it meshes perfectly well with the 3x Major Timeline Theory.
Everybody is happy, all shows exist, and conflicts in Canon, are resolved by having a "Old Prime Universe" and "Neo Prime Universe"
OOps... fixed. My bad.
A very good episode. Not in the same league as last week but heads and shoulders better than the premiere.
Chong/La’an was really good. She and Wesley work really well together.
Wesley was good too. Loads better than he was in the S1 finale for sure. But to me, there is still something off. Maybe that will fix itself when we see the actual nu-Trek version of Kirk and not a variant. I mean, we’ve seen a stiff Kirk that never commanded the Enterprise and one from a timeline where he grew up on starships and Earth was a wasteland. Let’s see a proper version before we pass judgement on his Kirk.
I don’t think we needed to see La’an interact with Khan but whatever.
It would have been fun if the agent from Temporal Investigations at the end was Daniels.
the more I see of Pelia the more I like. So far Kane seems to be really good casting.
The ep was maybe a touch too long. But it’s no big deal.
Now the timeline stuff…
I would be interested to see what the overlap is like for the people that HATE that Enterprise explained where TOS Klingons came from but are totally cool with SNW explaining the constantly shifting Eugenics Wars dates. Something’s don’t need explains people. lol.
For me it’s real simple. In my head canon, SNW and Disco have always been in a different “quantum reality” like what Worf encountered in “Parallels.” So whatever changes they make in the “past” like firmly pushing the Eugenics War from the 1990s to the 2020s only affects the “nu-Trek” or the Kurtzman-verse. “Classic” Trek or the Roddenberry/Berman-verse continues the same as always.
And again, this is my head canon. Not trying to convince anyone or start an argument or anything like that.
I’ll give the episode a low 8/10.
Chong/La’an was really good. She and Wesley work really well together.
Wesley was good too. Loads better than he was in the S1 finale for sure. But to me, there is still something off. Maybe that will fix itself when we see the actual nu-Trek version of Kirk and not a variant. I mean, we’ve seen a stiff Kirk that never commanded the Enterprise and one from a timeline where he grew up on starships and Earth was a wasteland. Let’s see a proper version before we pass judgement on his Kirk.
I don’t think we needed to see La’an interact with Khan but whatever.
It would have been fun if the agent from Temporal Investigations at the end was Daniels.
the more I see of Pelia the more I like. So far Kane seems to be really good casting.
The ep was maybe a touch too long. But it’s no big deal.
Now the timeline stuff…
I would be interested to see what the overlap is like for the people that HATE that Enterprise explained where TOS Klingons came from but are totally cool with SNW explaining the constantly shifting Eugenics Wars dates. Something’s don’t need explains people. lol.
For me it’s real simple. In my head canon, SNW and Disco have always been in a different “quantum reality” like what Worf encountered in “Parallels.” So whatever changes they make in the “past” like firmly pushing the Eugenics War from the 1990s to the 2020s only affects the “nu-Trek” or the Kurtzman-verse. “Classic” Trek or the Roddenberry/Berman-verse continues the same as always.
And again, this is my head canon. Not trying to convince anyone or start an argument or anything like that.
I’ll give the episode a low 8/10.
Pelia drinks so much, she may have trouble recalling what happened last week, not to mention 240 years earlier...
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