Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 2x03 - "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow"

[Noname Given]

Once again posting before I read the rest of this Thread.

I'm a broken record as this is another $#@! 10 for me.

That was probably the best time travel episode Star Trek has done. i LOVED it.

I loved that it wasn't just the standard - "Okay, we know what we have o fix...let's just go from A to B to C and done..." The character motivations were believable (even with Kirk questioning if he wanted to change things so he could keep his life and he knew it. Yes, he decided to help La'an revert to her timeline once he knew he and Sam were alive.)

I also LOVED that Pela WASN'T even interested in Engineering (La'an of course thought Pela must have loved engineering all her life) - and yeah, corny as it was I loved Pela's line of:

"I haven't taken a Math class since Pythagoras invented the crap!..."

I also love that even if La'an decides to broach this all with Pela in the 23rd century - given hiow Pela's been portrayed, it would be out of character for her to honestly NOT remember meeting La'an or alternate timeline Kirk 250 years or so earlier - even though the inference is that it was the en counter where Pela decidedd to stop stealing for a living and take up Engineering in some form.

It had a good mix of action, comedy, personal drama, and again, loved that you couldn't see HOW it was going to end beyond the timeline being 'fixed' - the path to the end wasn't predictable and it was actually entertaining.

I also love the fact the the events had an effect on La'an; and that it wasn't just a "Well that was interesting, but t's back to business as usual..." ending. The aspect that Time Travel is messy in Trek was in full force and nicely executed.

As for whether or not SNW itself is in a separate timeline from the rapidly approaching TOS timeline...
^^^
Yep, time travel is messy. If you believe SNW isn't part of the 'Prime' Star Trek timeline, then hey, for all you Berman era fans out there:

You guys would have to accept that everything after both Star Trek: First Contact and/or the two part Voyager episode Future's End is also an alternate timeline from all the Star Trek TV episode and Feature Film content produced before either of these Star Trek franchise entries.

OR

You can just go with: "Trek Time Travel is messy, thus EVERYTHING just fits together however and whenever you saw it..."

But yeah, this is CLASSIC STAR TREK 100% and I love it.

 

[Rainard Fox]

I mean, I get the frustration since Pike is my main draw. But, personally, I have a strong affinity for family time and I support that more than my own show interests.
That's my thing.
If Pike is shoved out then that would be more disappointing, and even more so that Kirk is now a thing in SNW.

I only bothered because I remember the discussion around possible Pike show fans asked for, and the arguments against it firstly have no reference to Mount's family. It was more about "we have enough Trek shows", "we have enough white lead actors", etc.

I also have empathy to the desire have more time with the family. Just don't agree to lay all the responsibility for the production issues to the baby. Probably it's a reason to make show filming more comfortable and less life-consuming process.

 

[Jedi Marso]

How much money did Kirk win playing chess?!?! That's hundreds of dollars of clothing each (if not thousands) and that hotel room is thousands a night....

Plus, unless it's the streetwalker motel, nobody checks into a hotel these days without I.D. and a credit card to be held for 'incidentals', even if you intend to pay cash in the end.

 

[J. Frank Doobie]

After watching this episode, my burning question was "are they depicting hotel prices in Toronto accurately?" which is why I came directly here!

Some have argued that this episode did not advance La'an as much as pile on her trauma. I'd agree, except that this episode is, very explicitly, expressed in dialogue, about her learning that she doesn't have to be completely dominated and/or defined by her own past, her name, etc. I think that will fuel continued character growth and "opening up" from this point. They quite clearly stated this theme in the sparring scene with M'benga and the street scene with Kirk right before they discover (rather conveniently!) the institute.

 

[fireproof78]

I only bothered because I remember the discussion around possible Pike show fans asked for, and the arguments against it firstly have no reference to Mount's family. It was more about "we have enough Trek shows", "we have enough white lead actors", etc.

So what? That's another person's values. And I think that Mount will decrease his participation more because of his family.

I also have empathy to the desire have more time with the family. Just don't agree to lay all the responsibility for the production issues to the baby. Probably it's a reason to make show filming more comfortable and less life-consuming process.

I mean, I would hope so. TV production is a grueling filming process. Why not make it easier?

 

[Jedi Marso]

That's really close to my take on the situation

Putting aside the Kelvin timeline, there are 3 timelines we have been watching

Original:
TOS>ST: First Contact

Temporal War version 1:
First Contact>ENT>TOS>TNG>DS9>VOY>Nemesis

Temporal War version 2
(Time agents Delay the Eugenics War)>First Contact>ENT>Disco>SNW>(Alternate high tech TOS)>(very slightly alternate TOS movies)>TNG>DS9>VGR>LD>PRO>PIC

The ripples in the timeline have dissipated by the TNG era, and the timelines become virtually identical.

I like this interpretation. A lot.

 

[Airmandan]

Time travel gives me a headache. I'm surprised that La'an didn't return to her time and find that there was something different from when she left.

 

[Verteron]

Christina Chong is an outstanding actor

 

[fireproof78]

Time travel gives me a headache. I'm surprised that La'an didn't return to her time and find that there was something different from when she left.

The wall in the cafeteria is different.

 

[Yistaan]

Time travel gives me a headache. I'm surprised that La'an didn't return to her time and find that there was something different from when she left.

La'an's very existence should be in question. I'm pretty sure delaying your great whatever grandfather's birth by at least 40 years means you will no longer exist period.

 

[Verteron]

La'an's very existence should be in question. I'm pretty sure delaying your great whatever grandfather's birth by at least 40 years means you will no longer exist period.

From her perspective, Khan was always born in the 2010s.

SNW is set in the resulting timeline, which is apparently the one that 'wins' in terms of getting protected by the Temporal Agents in the future - it's not the pure unaltered original.

 

[fireproof78]

La'an's very existence should be in question. I'm pretty sure delaying your great whatever grandfather's birth by at least 40 years means you will no longer exist period.

Trek time travel rules strike again. See also the Mirror Universe.

 

[Yistaan]

From her perspective, Khan was always born in about 2015. We're watching the resulting timeline, not the pure original.

So basically then La'an never existed in the TOS universe and Wrath of Khan where Khan himself (in WoK) outright says he fled Earth in 1996.

Meaning that the Spock of TOS never knew anyone by the name of La'an Noonien Singh because TOS was in the old timeline. Which means that SNW's claim to being a prequel to TOS falls apart because of Spock's friendship with a character in SNW that never existed in TOS.

Ok, this is confusing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's hilarious because I'm going to a concert tomorrow at the "secret base" they show at the end. lol

What building is it? One of those ones on the harbor?

From her perspective, Khan was always born in the 2010s.

SNW is set in the resulting timeline, which is apparently the one that 'wins' in terms of getting protected by the Temporal Agents in the future - it's not the pure unaltered original.

So much for the prime timeline, eh?

 

[DEWLine]

Or someone else's misadventures somewhen else put everything back to how "Space Seed" and TWOK had it, and we never get to see that story.

 

[fireproof78]

So much for the prime timeline, eh?

Yup, it's dead, Jim.

Never to be seen again.

 

[PiotrB]

Well, that time travel ban sure didn't last long.

Then the ban was overturned.

It's just people in the 31st century being whiny little babies and demanding people in the past/future do all the work for them.

Yes, because Temporal Technology is a zero sum arms race.

Either you constantly develop it, and can defend against the most recent developments, or you never existed because the other people who constantly developed it have erased you from existence.

I have the impression that a similar discussion took place even probably with you in the past on the DSC forum. And here again you require us to explain to you that the time travel ban only applies to the future from the date it was signed and only applies to its signatories. Furthermore, I don't know why you consider yourself capable of finding loopholes in a fictional treaty in a way that requires dilettantism from its fictional signatories. Unless, of course, you have read the fictitious treaty and know for certain that your allegations are not addressed in it.

 

[Verteron]

So basically then La'an never existed in the TOS universe and Wrath of Khan where Khan himself (in WoK) outright says he fled Earth in 1996.

Meaning that the Spock of TOS never knew anyone by the name of La'an Noonien Singh because TOS was in the old timeline. Which means that SNW's claim to being a prequel to TOS falls apart because of Spock's friendship with a character in SNW that never existed in TOS.

Ok, this is confusing.

It does neatly explain why none of the Enterprise's command crew who served with her didn't mention it as a way to try and placate Khan in Space Seed.

I'm thinking "oh yeah, we served with your great great granddaughter, she was cool" might have calmed him down or at least served as a distraction.

I think official first contact with the Gorn was later in the original timeline which is why TOS Kirk didn't know about them. If La'an does exist she was probably never rescued.

 

[firehawk12]

It does neatly explain why none of the Enterprise's command crew who served with her didn't mention it as a way to try and placate Khan in Space Seed.

I'm thinking "Oh yeah, we served with your great great granddaughter, she was cool" might have calmed him down or at least served as a distraction.

I think official first contact with the Gorn was later in the original timeline which is why Kirk didn't know about them. If La'an does exist she was probably never rescued.

I mean, TOS never mentions Sybok or Michael either.

 

[firehawk12]

What building is it? One of those ones on the harbor?

No, it's weird because the use of space doesn't really make sense lol
The final building they enter is the Royal Conservatory - https://www.rcmusic.com/about-us

The glass looking building they walk beside as they joke about who gets to wear the watch is the Royal Ontario Museum, which is a block or so away from it... so at least their semi-random wandering makes sense there.