Spoilers Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 1x10 - "A Quality of Mercy"

[fireproof78]

It's certainly possible they've turned off more fans, potential fans, and casual viewers with their nostalgia-driven, slapdash, superficial approach.

Maybe but is it enough? See, here is what I see. Even if fans don't like it, they watch it. Even if they don't subscribe all the time, they subscribe enough and they watch it. This is a pure numbers game, and we fans play right in to it by watching it, talking about it, and complaining about it and returning for more. Because, just as many fans as they might turn off we fans might also turn on by talking about it so much. Humans are strange that way that if a person bitches about something enough other people are not going to go "Yeah, that sounds really shitty." They might have the opposite reaction and go "You're exaggerating. There's no way it's that bad." So they subscribe and add to the numbers.

The only way this stops is if enough fans just STOP!

Seems strange he'd be commanding Outpost 4 months after his son died in TOS like nothing happened though, as it's established now.

That's the nature of duty and the service. Also Gene's vision since people don't mourn in the future.

Hamlet is still Hamlet whether you film a blockbuster version or perform it in the park. What does it matter that the costumes and set look different if the same events occur?

Exactly.

What floats my boat now is to stop spending time and energy trying to explain real world decisions with in-universe fan-wank.

No kidding. The amount of energy spent could power the planet with all the fan wank.

 

[fireproof78]

Monks of Kahless. Monks of Kahless. Literally the people who defined the Klingon warrior belief system. I never said Klingons only have one culture. But the episode specified the time crystal came from the monks of Kahless! I said that in my first post on the issue! It's in the episode!

And? As if all Klingons or monks of Kahless belief exactly the same!

As for small universe syndrome from in trek.. Just look at the kelvin movies.. Everyone is on the ship..

Except for Scotty. And technically Kirk wasn't supposed to be there any way.

I think this episode ebds the debate on the look of tje ship and uniforms. The uniforns and the ship will not be any closer to TOS. What we see now is how things will look in kirks era. The original TOS era look has now officially been retconned.

Oh noes! Dios mio!

The humanity! My TOS DVDs are fading from existence right before my eyes!

 

[Tuskin38]

Also, the Farragut is now definitely not a Connie, not that (I think) it was ever stated as one.

Yeah, that was only in non-canon works. They used the registry from other non-canon works though.

I haven't watched the episode yet, but from the recent episodes and the previews I've seen over the last 24hrs, it now seems like SNW is becoming a soft-reboot of TOS

The previews are completely out of context.

Also, I wish they would stop using 20th and 21th century expressions

But not the 20th century and older ones all the shows have used?

 

[fireproof78]

But not the 19th century and older ones all the shows have used?

Well, obviously if it is from Shakespeare then we have to keep using it. But, 21st century slang? Inconceivable!

 

[C.E. Evans]

Hansen's established as commanding Outpost 4 from 2259 to 2266. We know now his son doesn't make it alive from the delta radiation accident. He's still there in Balance of Terror (albeit with a caucasian actor but presumably it's the same character). He wasn't reassigned.

The point was that life goes on, and duty in Starfleet as well.

 

[Yistaan]

Lost DS9 Episode: Not in the Pale Moonlight

Sisko tries to convince the Romulans to join the fight against the Dominion. They refuse. Garak offers his "help", but Sisko tells him to get lost. The Dominion War permanently devastates all major Fed planets and turns Worf into a vegetable, preventing him from killing Gowron who later starts a new war against the Fed that finishes what the Dominion started.

Sisko uses his prophet powers to go back in time and tell past Sisko to accept the evil help of Garak. Sisko and Garak gleefully kill the Romulan senator Vreenak and frame the Dominion without remorse due to being reassured it's for the greater good.

All moral dilemmas and doubts are resolved because helpful future people tell you what to do. Somehow I don't think "Not In the Pale Moonlight" would've had quite the same impact to be honest.

 

[fireproof78]

All moral dilemmas and doubts are resolved because helpful future people tell you what to do. Somehow I don't think "In the Pale Moonlight" would've had quite the same impact to be honest.

Ham fisted moralizing? Absolutely would have had the same impact.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The humanity! My TOS DVDs are fading from existence right before my eyes!

It's unbelievable!

 

[fireproof78]

It's unbelievable!

The laws of physics cannot be changed. Only one style of this era of Star Trek can exist.

*Cue Doc Brown* Erased...from existence!

 

[TrekTrucker]

I thought this was an excellent episode and a fantastic season finale. And I really appreciate how it sets up the why behind Spock’s willingness to risk the death penalty for Pike in TOS. Loved the modern take on the Wrath of Khan uniforms.

That said, a couple of minor quibbles. The first and biggest one being, did I misunderstand the consequences of Pike taking the original time crystal back in Discovery season 2? I was under the impression that Pike had essentially “locked in” his future being confined to the chair, and there was nothing, absolutely nothing he could do to change it. But in this episode his future is still undetermined. Pike still has the ability to alter his fate. Yes, we see the consequences of him doing that, but I didn’t actually think he could.

Second quibble, Spock’s future, I don’t know if they did a good enough job pointing out how important Spock is to the future. Was future Pike hinting at the fact that Spock is responsible for Reunification or what? How much did future Pike actually know?

But other than that, that was a damn fine finale.

 

[Yistaan]

I'd almost hazard a guess that the showrunners went so far as to rip off "The ones who walk away from omelas" and risk angering Le Guin fans precisely so they could troll the audience and see how many people condemning Alora for her Warhammer 40k golden throne torture setup for the "greater good" would then be cheering on the exact same concept with Pike just a few episodes later. (Especially as Alora's people have had centuries to search for an alternative while Future Pike can't have had nearly that long)

Second quibble, Spock’s future, I don’t know if they did a good enough job pointing out how important Spock is to the future. Was future Pike hinting at the fact that Spock is responsible for Reunification or what? How much did future Pike actually know?

Future Pike has to know about the whale probe, stopping Sybok releasing "God", and the Khitomer accords. Ironically these are all events that happened AFTER Spock literally died and had to be resurrected, kind of blunting his point that Spock needs to be kept safe at all times.

The stuff Spock does that changes the galaxy isn't anything in TOS. TAS Yesteryear showed a universe where Spock died at 7, and the Fed was doing fine in this alternate timeline as of TAS.

 

[Tuskin38]

I noticed that they went with gravitational lensing instead of a motion sensor to track the ship.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I'm wondering why it took until the 10th episode to arrest Number One. I wonder if it took seven episodes' worth of time for the Federation Council to deliberate?

The simple answer would be bureaucracy. It takes time for the Enterprise logs to make it back to Starfleet Command, and then be reviewed, and then someone has to have that 'wait- what? Holy shit!' moment regarding Una, then think on it for a day or two, then report it to someone else, and then the whole 'well what do we do about it' discussion happens at the flag level. In the meantime, Enterprise is warping around the Federation, doing its thing.

Then, events finally catch up to them at Outpost 4.

 

[Captain Jollydark]

Commander Hansen's race was changed also, and in dialogue also as his last name is established as Al-Salah, a Middle Eastern name. But Hansen's appearance in TOS was so brief that I'm fine with it.

Seems strange he'd be commanding Outpost 4 months after his son died in TOS like nothing happened though, as it's established now.

Most people's jobs don't stop at a death in the family. Don't know how yours works.

 

[Tuskin38]

The simple answer would be bureaucracy. It takes time for the Enterprise logs to make it back to Starfleet Command, and then be reviewed, and then someone has to have that 'wait- what? Holy shit!' moment regarding Una, then think on it for a day or two, then report it to someone else, and then the whole 'well what do we do about it' discussion happens at the flag level. In the meantime, Enterprise is warping around the Federation, doing its thing.

I wonder who spilled the beans. I can't see any of the officers who wouldn't want her kicked out putting that info in the reviewed logs.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Am I missing something? Why doesn't Pike just resign Starfleet in protest over Una's arrest? It literally solves all his problems.

By not being in Starfleet, the delta radiation accident can't happen.
By not being in Starfleet, Kirk will be in command of the Enterprise and the Romulan war won't happen.
By not being in Starfleet, Pike is making the strongest protest he can possibly make against Una's treatment.

Captain Kirk of the Farragut is a future version if Kirk. At the present time, he's not senior enough to command the Enterprise. If Pike resigns, someone else gets command of the ship.

 

[timtonruben359]

Just watched the finale. I thought it was great, but maybe the hype around it raised my expectations too much because I wasn't blown away by it. It's was kind of Voyager's "Endgame" but in reverse (and better written).

 

[IMC Headquarters]

The Jim Carrey Kirk. TruKirk! Gives whole new meaning to "He's dead Jim."

I wonder who spilled the beans. I can't see any of the officers who wouldn't want her kicked out putting that info in the reviewed logs.

Since it's the end of the season, I suspect it was a Nhan-Disclosure Agreement. She put the paperwork in before leaving.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd almost hazard a guess that the showrunners went so far as to rip off "The ones who walk away from omelas" and risk angering Le Guin fans precisely so they could troll the audience and see how many people condemning Alora for her Warhammer 40k golden throne torture setup for the "greater good" would then be cheering on the exact same concept with Pike just a few episodes later. (Especially as Alora's people have had centuries to search for an alternative while Future Pike can't have had nearly that long)

I would expect such inconsistency from Trek fans. Especially those who cry foul at every "canon" violation of Discovery and SNW and yet demand that PIKE LIVES!

 

[Captain Jollydark]

Second quibble, Spock’s future, I don’t know if they did a good enough job pointing out how important Spock is to the future. Was future Pike hinting at the fact that Spock is responsible for Reunification or what? How much did future Pike actually know?

But other than that, that was a damn fine finale.

I think Pike alluded to Klingon's hinting that Spock has something to do with that way way down the line. He'd tried dozens of times to change his fate.